AuthorTopic: GR#194 - Helmet - Shading  (Read 5780 times)

Offline odedrt9

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GR#194 - Helmet - Shading

on: June 09, 2014, 08:23:07 pm
Hmm I tried to draw a roman helmet after a big break from drawing..
It is also my first time shading a metal so it probably not perferct...

This is the first shading try:


I asked a friend of mine and she said that the shading should be more clean because it's metallic so I tried to clean it a bit.
But the cheek shield bothered me so I tried to reshade it but now it's not so reaistic.. And I don't know how to fix it..


If you could help me with the shading and the hair on the top(because I don't even know how to start it) I'd be grateful ^^

P.S
I'm pretty much new to pixel arting... Just so you know..

Offline Manupix

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 12:26:54 pm
You picked a difficult task for a beginner  :o
Maybe you should practice on simpler stuff first so you can get a good grasp of shading basics?
As in, not metal and not hair  :P

Anyway we'd need to see the reference for this helmet. So far, volumes are hard to tell.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 12:40:07 pm
You picked a difficult task for a beginner  :o
Maybe you should practice on simpler stuff first so you can get a good grasp of shading basics?
As in, not metal and not hair  :P

Anyway we'd need to see the reference for this helmet. So far, volumes are hard to tell.

Haha yes, I know it's a difficult task.. I'm not a real beginner but I also don't have a lot of experience.
Hmm it's not my first work or anything.. And I wanted to try some different things, and the helmet was in front of me xD
So I just started to draw it.. And it's a good practice in general don't you agree?

anyway, this is the reference:
http://i.imgur.com/10gjYUI.jpg

Offline Manupix

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #3 on: June 11, 2014, 01:23:33 pm
Is this something you own? If so, choose a better viewing angle!
Maybe practice sketching it (on paper) from a number of angles, till you find the best possible angle for volume readability.
For instance, it's easier to understand from a 3/4 angle like this:



In your version, front and back are not obvious to unfamiliar viewers.

Also the crest is slanted towards the back and not level as in yours, this is an important front/back clue.

As for shading, the problem with bright metal is everything you see is a reflection of the surroundings, and not much more. A very soft light will make everything even, maybe to the point of looking dull. Bright lights will create a lot of speculars, to the point of confusion.
The advantage of drawing over photography is you don't need to be consistent in these reflections, but you need to look hard at it in various light settings. Taking pictures helps, too.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #4 on: June 11, 2014, 01:35:50 pm
Yeah, I own it ^^
It's really helpful, Thanks a lot!

I see what you mean, i'll try to draw some sketches from different angles as you said as well as different light source directions.
And then I'll try to redraw it and upload it again.

Ok, I actually did a few sketches of the helmet from different perspectives.
And that's what I came up with(It's a quick drawing just for an experiment):

What do you think? Is it better(perspective\readability wise)?

« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 05:35:30 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 01:42:19 am
good, now use broad blocks of color to divide each part of metal into shadow/mid/highlight. try to study the way a single strong light source plays on metal.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 10:44:28 am
Hmm I didn't have much time because of tests and work..
But I came up with these:

And:

I still think that the shading isn't realistic but I think it's better...
I'll try to do some research on metal shading when I'll have some free time.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 03:49:00 pm
Try using three colors for each kind of material, that would probably help you eliminate the pillow shading around the center. Also shoot for consistency, it looks like your light source is a little confused. I'll shoot you an edit when I get home.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 04:39:10 pm
Thanks for the reply :)
I concentrated the light a bit and added a few more colors:

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 06:07:56 pm
No, I mean reduce the colors. To easily manipulate the light on an object it is essential you begin simply. Try using only three colors for each material.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #10 on: June 15, 2014, 06:19:46 pm
No, I mean reduce the colors. To easily manipulate the light on an object it is essential you begin simply. Try using only three colors for each material.

Ohh.. I mistunderstood...
Ok, I'll edit and post it later.

Edit:
Something like this?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 06:41:59 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 01:55:34 pm
Maybe three colors is a bit limiting. I'd say you need a very bright color (or pure white) for speculars, which could be common to all materials.
Is this shading drawn from life, or do you 'guess' it? In the many color versions it does look pillowshaded which is usuallly the result of guessing: concentric rings of colors. Stuff doesn't look like that IRL: look at the photo I posted above: the color zones are not rings, some transitions are smooth and some are hard.

The angle of view is much better now.

You'll have to check the linework which is very jaggy (especially the crest, both the top and the holder).
More than that, you have to think hard about outlines. Do you want/need them?
At this level of detail, they use up precious space for small detail shading, and they create a banding festival.
I don't like obviously colored outlines either, they have no point at all, except maybe to tone down some inside outlines, when done well.
Outlines are an abstraction, they don't exist in things. If you go for them, make them plain, dark, and outside only/mostly.
Depends on what you plan for this piece afterwards: keep it a single sprite on transparency, give it a simple background, or create a scene around it.

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 05:31:29 pm
Maybe three colors is a bit limiting. I'd say you need a very bright color (or pure white) for speculars, which could be common to all materials.
Is this shading drawn from life, or do you 'guess' it? In the many color versions it does look pillowshaded which is usuallly the result of guessing: concentric rings of colors. Stuff doesn't look like that IRL: look at the photo I posted above: the color zones are not rings, some transitions are smooth and some are hard.

Hmm It's not a guess but I might overdid it... Unlike the picture you posted which obviously hasn't been taken in a normal room, in my room the light source isn't that bright and there are other furnitures. Because of the helmet strong reflection I can't seem to find a good angle so it won't reflect the furnitures and that messes up the lighting. :blind:
Do you see the problem?
But yes, I might overdid the very bright spot it suppose to be more concentrated.

The angle of view is much better now.

I think so too, thanks for telling me to change it  :)

You'll have to check the linework which is very jaggy (especially the crest, both the top and the holder).

By crest you mean the thing on the forhead or the thing which holds the hair? ???

More than that, you have to think hard about outlines. Do you want/need them?
At this level of detail, they use up precious space for small detail shading, and they create a banding festival.
I don't like obviously colored outlines either, they have no point at all, except maybe to tone down some inside outlines, when done well.
Outlines are an abstraction, they don't exist in things. If you go for them, make them plain, dark, and outside only/mostly.

Hmm I always used outlines.. I think I can remove them though.. I see what you mean by "they don't exist in things", next time I won't use them in the first place :)

Depends on what you plan for this piece afterwards: keep it a single sprite on transparency, give it a simple background, or create a scene around it.

To be honest, it doesn't have a real purpose.. So I think I'll just keep it a single sprite in the end. But I do want to keep playing with it a bit more before I move on the different things.

Thanks a bunch for your comment!

Edit:
I tried to be as exact as I can with the light reflection in my room and it turned out like this:


The plain areas are actually this plain.. And it looks a bit empty.. I hope you understand what I mean..
And as I said the light is very bright but also very thin..
I also tried to get rid of the inner outlines.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 06:35:45 pm by odedrt9 »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 08:31:33 pm
According to wikipedia, the crest is the hair thing, may include the crest holder. I checked before commenting, I had no idea what to call it before ;)

Reflections: this is why I said you could cheat. Draw the reflections from various angles, bit by bit.

Did you see the link about banding in my previous comment?  ;D

Offline odedrt9

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #14 on: June 17, 2014, 06:56:28 am
According to wikipedia, the crest is the hair thing, may include the crest holder. I checked before commenting, I had no idea what to call it before ;)

Oh I see, I had not idea too  :crazy:

Reflections: this is why I said you could cheat. Draw the reflections from various angles, bit by bit.

But wouldn't it be weird as if there are multiple light sources? ???

Did you see the link about banding in my previous comment?  ;D

Yes, I read about banding and I tried something but I'm not sure if I applied it properly  :P

It's probably wrong though..

Offline YellowLime

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #15 on: June 17, 2014, 09:09:16 am
Regardless of closeness to the source reference, I liked the one with dithering the best (June 15th), even though the shading on the flap was very wonky :ouch: Fizzick mentioned it had pillow-shading, but I think that's only an issue when the pillow-shading doesn't correlate with the lighting source (which I think it did, in this case)

I don't know if the more recent ones are closer to source material, but the shading and colors look less real to me (a viewer that isn't comparing with the source material) and the banding is an evident problem which, in my opinion, is somewhat hidden with the dithering you had done previously.

TL;DR:
I liked this one the best , maybe try dithering with the colors of this one: (and maybe leave the ear flap with some plain shading ;))

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Helmet and shading

Reply #16 on: June 17, 2014, 04:58:12 pm
Dithering is really only a finishing touch and creates an often unwanted texture. I wouldn't work with it until the polishing step of the process.