AuthorTopic: GR#193 - Isometric Landscape  (Read 7982 times)

Offline cels

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GR#193 - Isometric Landscape

on: May 28, 2014, 02:41:54 am
This is my first attempt doing anything like this, so I'd appreciate any kind of feedback. First and foremost, I would like to know if I've made any blunders in terms of perspective and lighting. But yeah, I'm also not sure if I'm able to pull off the grass like I want to. The most astute observer may be able to guess my inspiration, but I don't want to limit myself to that or just make a complete copy.


Offline Manupix

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 12:02:27 pm
Is it important that it is exact iso? (it is)
Since only the house and pier can be obviously aligned to the grid so far, the perspective looks off, esp on the roof. If not strictly necessary, I'd consider cheating.

For composition reasons, I'd prefer a light source at upper right, so the lit side of the house faces inward.

The water is unrealistically dark, looks like a floating island in outer space.
The sky should reflect in it, it can't be dark because of the soft house shadow; it would also have some degree of transparency, at least at the most shallow.

Offline astraldata

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 06:58:32 pm
Not sure I agree with the dark water being too dark unless this isn't a night-fall scene (it reads as just around sunset, when most everything is covered in shadow and the faint glow of the orange sun behind the horizon.) If that's the intent, then I think it looks fairly spot-on, although you might want to consider some hint of speculars on the waves, since I doubt you'd be able to see that deep into the water at that time of day.

Looking at your reference, your colors are too cool and green to mimic the just-past-sunset on your grass though (might try aiming for a little more brown instead.)

Finally, the perspective on your house is bizarre (the roof to the rightmost side of the image stands out the most), and it doesn't really read as proper iso to me. I would consider cheating on that portion of the house if you're determined to have the base aligned to the grid. You need at least some sense of diminishing perspective to keep that roof from looking way too pointy at the top-right. Perhaps it's that little bit that seems to hang off to the bottom-right corner portion of the roof that's ruining the illusion. Fix that first to see if it helps. Otherwise you might need to bring in the end of the roof a little depth-wise.
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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 03:12:48 am
I instantly knew it was inspired by Vagrant's piece.. I must be an astute viewer :o.. and cool that you linked it. I think the main reason is the way you made the hill formation so similarly.
I also agree that the barn or house looks a bit off. somehow it reads as if at the peak it curves inward even.
 

Offline Decroded

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 01:46:46 pm
lookin pretty cool.
not sure how u want the grass to look but simply using the texture to rough up the edges between blocks of shade is a good start.

Offline cels

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 02:45:43 am
Thanks, guys! Very encouraging, you're giving me the feels!   ;D



I tried to tone down the colours in this version, so that it doesn't look like a sunny day. I wanted this to be a cloudy day. But I think I need a bit more contrast still. Thoughts?

@Manupix:

- Yeah, I definitely want to keep this Iso. But I realize that one building isn't enough to show that this is actually intended to be iso, so I've introduced another one. Works well with what I had in mind anyway.

- I was kind of working with the grid before, but I kind of abandoned it after a while. I'm following it more strictly this time.


- Changed the composition, good call about the light source vs the main point of interest. It's not the short wall.

- I definitely want the waters to be dark, like the Norwegian coast. But yeah, I may have gone too far. I'll tweak the colours a bit more as I progress, start to look for some references for the water. I will also work on the transparency!

- The shadow was more of an after thought, and a mistake. I don't want this to be dusk or dawn, I'd like this to be around noon on a grey day.

@astraldata:

- Thank you, I'll try to adjust the colours to match the time of day I had in mind.

- I'll also work on the roof, keeping your criticism in mind. Hopefully, I'll be able to show some progress there in my next version.

@ ||||:  Hah, well done.

@ Decroded: Cheers! I'll need to think about the grass, as I want to eventually get around to animating it, so that it's constantly bending and swaying in the wind.

Offline Decroded

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #6 on: May 31, 2014, 02:59:47 am
Would be cool if grass animated in a wave across the scene and u could see it russel leaves on trees as wind hit trees.
A cycle of gentle wind followed by a stronger sustained gust.
I think it could be coded in engine pretty easily too

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 12:36:35 pm
The way you drew the lighter grass in your newest version gives the impression of breaking perspective. Its because the shapes you drew are vaguely rectangular, but are at an angle that doesnt reinforce the iso projection.

Offline cels

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 04:38:24 am
@Decroded: I absolutely agree. I'm just going to finish this single frame first, and then see if I can possibly do a looping animation that doesn't require thousands of hours of work :)

@Mr. Fahrenheit: Good call. Thanks!

---

In my latest version, I've gone and reversed the colours in the waters, so that the reflections from land are actually dark compared to the water which is reflecting the clouded sky above. This seems more consistent with pictures I've looked at for references.

Note: I am aware that I can't have a pristine ocean surface and perfectly vertical trees when the grass looks like there's a hurricane going on. Will add wind to trees and water later.

« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 06:56:37 am by cels »

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #9 on: June 05, 2014, 07:50:00 pm
I liked the yellow-er color you used for the roof before, it introduced a nice splash of color into the scene, but the green roof just sort of looks weird to me.

Offline cels

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 04:58:03 am
Well, I definitely don't want a splash of colour, since I want the scene to be a bit grey and gloomy. Secondly, it doesn't make sense to me that the grass on the roof looks more fresh and green than the grass everywhere else. But point taken about weird green, so I've gone in a different direction.

Better?

Offline Arachne

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #11 on: June 06, 2014, 10:28:29 am
I notice your rocks are very angular. Something you should consider, if you want something more uniquely Norwegian, is to include a more obviously glacier-molded landscape. The glaciers not only formed the fjords, but also made the bedrock very smooth. Long grooves made by rocks being dragged along by the glaciers is another characteristic. They're parallel, as they indicate the direction of the flow of the glacier. Of course, chunks of rock will be broken off in places and give you more angular sections, so you can still have some variation. If you look for these things in photos, I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about. ;D

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #12 on: June 06, 2014, 07:30:32 pm
Oh, sorry I didnt realize it was supposed to be a grass roof  :-[. I just thought you were trying to conserve colors.

Offline Manupix

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #13 on: June 07, 2014, 09:40:10 pm
Looking good. Wow, you got an Arachne comment =)

Composition edit:



Added a rocky slope and darker ground to close the view on the upper right corner; roughened up the ground on which the houses are built.
Contrary to present horrendous practice, old houses were built on uneven ground if needed, and looked the better for it. This hides the iso-ness even more though, possibly too much for your plans. Your houses could also have more diverse shapes I guess.



Also planted roofs are thick, heavy and overhanging; yours show none of these so far.



There definitely is / will be a roof vs ground color issue, not sure how to fix yet.
You might keep the same colors for both and play with shadows to ensure volume readability, or pick a different kind of vegetation for the roofs.

The water looks way better now. Can't wait for waves!

Offline Corinthian Baby

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 02:02:21 am
You've got a good concept here and good ref. Use them! Notice how much taller the grass is on the roof. (Guessing they don't mow up there). Also the house is red which vibrates against the green and gives nice readable planes. (You can still maintain gloomy atmosphere with desaturated reds.) Def have to differentiate the roof green from the ground level grass because it is causing readability problems.

Also I would say to fake some juice and throw some red accents into the grass as well just to let it vibrate and give it some richness/variation in the color pallet. Trees look good but could use some darker values to help push the volume a bit.

Overall it's a great painterly style and I want to see how this progresses. Good idea for an environment and curious to see how you'll start to render those rocks a bit more. Keep pushing it.

Offline cels

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #15 on: June 14, 2014, 11:42:32 pm


I notice your rocks are very angular. Something you should consider, if you want something more uniquely Norwegian, is to include a more obviously glacier-molded landscape. The glaciers not only formed the fjords, but also made the bedrock very smooth. Long grooves made by rocks being dragged along by the glaciers is another characteristic. They're parallel, as they indicate the direction of the flow of the glacier. Of course, chunks of rock will be broken off in places and give you more angular sections, so you can still have some variation. If you look for these things in photos, I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about. ;D
Thanks a lot for bringing that to my attention! This just started out as a cheap imitation of Vagrant's piece, which is why I wanted to have the angular rocks. But as I started making it slightly my own, it became Norwegian and I didn't even think to adjust the rocks :)

And of course, I find angular rocks a lot easier to pixel than smoother ones. But I've drawn two different alternatives above. Is either of them better? I still want to follow the grid, you see, and I don't want to go crazy with shapes that don't follow the grid, except where I have to.

You've got a good concept here and good ref. Use them! Notice how much taller the grass is on the roof. (Guessing they don't mow up there). Also the house is red which vibrates against the green and gives nice readable planes. (You can still maintain gloomy atmosphere with desaturated reds.) Def have to differentiate the roof green from the ground level grass because it is causing readability problems.
Also I would say to fake some juice and throw some red accents into the grass as well just to let it vibrate and give it some richness/variation in the color pallet. Trees look good but could use some darker values to help push the volume a bit.
Overall it's a great painterly style and I want to see how this progresses. Good idea for an environment and curious to see how you'll start to render those rocks a bit more. Keep pushing it.
Thanks a lot!
I don't know what you mean by 'red' though. Almost everything is either a yellow or blue shade of green. And as far as the grass goes, I actually wanted to put more blue in there, but it just ended up crashing so badly, it looked completely out of place. Hopefully, adding more structure to the roof has made it easier to separate the roof from the ground.

Oh, sorry I didnt realize it was supposed to be a grass roof  :-[. I just thought you were trying to conserve colors.
If you didn't realize, it's not rendered well enough :)

Looking good. Wow, you got an Arachne comment =)
Hey, I'm as excited as you are. It's like a unicorn sighting, I don't know whether to make a wish or cross myself :)


(That may have sounded sarcastic, but wasn't at all! :) )

Added a rocky slope and darker ground to close the view on the upper right corner; roughened up the ground on which the houses are built.
Contrary to present horrendous practice, old houses were built on uneven ground if needed, and looked the better for it. This hides the iso-ness even more though, possibly too much for your plans. Your houses could also have more diverse shapes I guess.
Also planted roofs are thick, heavy and overhanging; yours show none of these so far.
There definitely is / will be a roof vs ground color issue, not sure how to fix yet.
You might keep the same colors for both and play with shadows to ensure volume readability, or pick a different kind of vegetation for the roofs.
The water looks way better now. Can't wait for waves!

Thanks a lot!
- Great idea with the rocky slope. Mine is smaller, because I wanted the large, grassy field to be the main focus. I know that seems weird, but I love grass and wind.
- Houses on uneven grounds: That's a tough one. I do agree with you, and your houses are far more interesting to look at. But I don't want to get away from the isometric grid, and I couldn't figure out how to make a compromise. I think I may have to do something clever with the stone building. I'll take a look at this in my next edit!
- Tried to make the planted roof a bit more realistic and improve roof vs ground issue.
- I have no idea at all how to draw waves. I've been looking for a good tutorial, but most of them deal with crashing waves from a ground perspective, or really shallow and transparent water, which isn't that helpful. I've been experimenting a lot, but not really happy with any of this. I want the waters to be as calm as possible, but there does need to be some movement to match the wind on the grass.
- I left out the strong shadow cast from the cliff, because strong shadow implies strong sunlight, and I wanted this to be a rather grey day. Which is why the buildings and trees won't cast strong shadows either.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 05:22:47 pm by cels »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Sotra landscape

Reply #16 on: June 16, 2014, 02:13:04 pm
But I don't want to get away from the isometric grid, and I couldn't figure out how to make a compromise. I think I may have to do something clever with the stone building.
I thought you might object ;)
How about conveniently placed boulders in the angles? They could even be tileable!

The wooden house needs large eaves, to protect the beam ends from rain.
The stone house now looks Breton, I'm ok with that (don't forget the gable chimneys though).

Waves: 4 with highlights from 1? Not sure. Best iso pixel waves are here, and best animated pixel wave(lets) there. Good luck with these  :blind: