AuthorTopic: water tiles  (Read 20324 times)

Offline .TakaM

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water tiles

on: July 28, 2006, 12:05:15 pm
Im still working on my rpg tiles.. and Im just not happy with the water tiles:

I think I'll keep the tiles for a shallow pond or swamp etc.. but theyre not suited for anything else really.. so Ive been trying to make some other water tiles:
seiken densetsu3 inspired:

windwakerish:


at the moment, the sd3 style tiles are the only ones I like how I can use them, the other two are very restricting (WWish especially lol) but I like how the wwish ones look the best


let me get to the point, I was hoping I could get some ideas, tips, references, anything from you guys to help me out  :)
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Offline Matriax

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Re: water tiles

Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 12:40:34 pm
All the tles are good, but For my the last tiles are the best :)

And the graphics all are very good  :o

Offline Dusty

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Re: water tiles

Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 01:05:53 pm
I love both of the new ones, but I think I'd have to say the first of the new tiles looks the best even though I have always liked the second style. It's simple, and it's appealing and doesn't look overly done. It will also be easier to animate smoothly, in my opinion.

On a side note, the ground tile transition from the pier to the dirt path looks a little rough, especially the bare pieces you have broken from the pier tiles. They just seem to be floating there above the dirt.

Either way, loving the look of this tileset.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 01:09:55 pm
just to clarify, youre in favour of the seiken desetsu3-ish water dusty?

I think it might fit in a bit better if I made the water's colours the same as the ones in the WWish water...



and yeah the transition between the paved tiles and rock/dirt tiles is very cheap XD
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Offline Dusty

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Re: water tiles

Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 01:37:24 pm
just to clarify, youre in favour of the seiken desetsu3-ish water dusty?

Ya, I think the WWish ones look like it's got too much going, on, hard for me to explain.

Offline Nix

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Re: water tiles

Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 01:45:01 pm
i love the last 2. but i feel the last one has to much going on and will divert you attention. cos if its a game. im guessing it will be animated?
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Offline Feron

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Re: water tiles

Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 01:58:18 pm
The first ones are nothing special compared to the last 2.  Personally i think the windwakerish ones fit the style better and look awesome.  The SD-ish ones are nice, but seem a little bland compared to WW style.

Offline ceddo

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Re: water tiles

Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 02:11:28 pm
I think the last one (windwaker style) is the best, though it has a slightly too transparent feel to it... I don't know why though :P

Offline Godslayer

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Re: water tiles

Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 02:46:45 pm
Windwaker version seems most suitable to me, stlye-wise as well as clarity-wise. The first one is one of those confusing tiles I hate because while your playing the game, its never clear what exactly it is and you always feel as if you should be able to walk on it, know what I mean? The clarity of the last two make them the better choice for me.
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Offline Larwick

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Re: water tiles

Reply #9 on: July 28, 2006, 02:57:51 pm
IMHO i dont think the wind waker style suits the rest of the tileset atall. Of course, it looks pretty darn awesome, but i think the middle one works much better. The first one has a nice feel too it, but the texture underwater is too visible i think, and it looks like the actual water is textured like so, although i like the idea of being able to see to the bottom.

Offline Zach

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Re: water tiles

Reply #10 on: July 28, 2006, 04:20:23 pm
i like the last set of water tiles, they remind me of wind waker, which is always what your stuff usually reminds me of, but i think a little saturation in the water would help to show some reflection of the sun maybe :p
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Offline Pawige

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Re: water tiles

Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 04:29:36 pm
I like the SD3ish tiles best. The WW ones look out of perspective and rather weird to me, and the original water tiles look strange as well, especially the way the sides of the building fade away, but the bottom is perfectly visible.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 11:49:30 pm
quite surprised by how many are in favour of the sd3ish tiles :P

k, I edited them to have similar colours to the WWish tiles:

for the better?
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Offline Larwick

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Re: water tiles

Reply #13 on: July 29, 2006, 12:04:34 am
Hmm, actually, i'm not sure that helps.. After that my view is drawn towards the odd splodgy dotting pattern... now i'm not sure if i like any :-\

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #14 on: July 29, 2006, 12:12:20 am
waht if the water details were like:

?
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Offline ptoing

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Re: water tiles

Reply #15 on: July 29, 2006, 12:38:02 am
I would put some highlights on the water every now and then.

And now for something completely different:

Change the transition between the square tiles and the ground. The ground looks kinda like big stones to me. I can not tell if its stones or dry earth and the transition to the tiles looks just off. Also would i add some overhang to the roof, so that it goes over the actual walls, no one builds houses like that.
And last but not least, the arches on the windows are a tad overaaed and look blurry. That's it.

But i have to say i would enjoy this look in a game.
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #16 on: July 29, 2006, 12:54:22 am

fixed the windows, changed the door a bit so it fits in with the walls better, added waves and very messy highlight/sparkles in the water.. am I on the right track with them?

that transition between the paved tiles and the rock/dirt tiles was just a quick cutting job, Im probably not even going to make tiles like that for the final set :P
and the roof, I think I'll make some guttering/borders to go around the edges of the roof, its much easier than pushing everything across and out of alignment
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Offline ptoing

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Re: water tiles

Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 01:50:00 am

I think I'll make some guttering/borders to go around the edges of the roof, its much easier than pushing everything across and out of alignment

That is what layers are for. Overlapping funky edges on another layer, old practise in videogames.
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Offline Faktablad

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Re: water tiles

Reply #18 on: July 29, 2006, 09:47:52 pm
I think that water would work the best.  Fits the style to a T.

Offline Sereth

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Re: water tiles

Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 12:05:23 am
The top one looks like a lake infested with lillypads.
But I like the SD3 one.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 11:50:27 am
working on the wave animation:

Im thinking I'll make it 32 frames, so I can make the layer with the circular pattern continuously scroll across
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Offline Dusty

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Re: water tiles

Reply #21 on: July 30, 2006, 12:42:03 pm
Looks good, but looks stiff. The foam in the wave not having any animation really makes it look like something just moving over it, instead of naturally flowing. I'd say the same wit the water, but I know you're probably going to animate that fixing that problem. One more thing, maybe have the dark, wet sand fade into a lighter colour as the wave pulls back.

Okay, I lied, one more thing about the wave I just thought about. Usually it's more natural and appealing when a wave begins to fall over the last wave pulling back. Instead of the wave crashing, and pulling back, you can animate the wave crashing in, and half way before it pulls back, have another wave begin to fall in over it. If that makes sense.

EDIT: okay... another thing(sorry, seeing more as I look at it), small, but I find it odd the wave doesn't crash and completely cover the dark part of the sand. Logically doesn't make sense that the sand would be wet if it's never hit with water.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 12:43:38 pm by Dusty »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #22 on: July 30, 2006, 12:54:50 pm
all valid points, I'll be sure to keep them in mind when I update the wave ;)
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Offline Frychiko

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Re: water tiles

Reply #23 on: July 30, 2006, 03:35:07 pm
Love what you've done so far, especially with your color choices. I've been watching your threads for a while now..

I just wanted to mention two things about the house design.

1) The bottom edge of the south roof tile, has a blue line right at the bottom that seems out of place, since there is no other area in the tile that uses that blue (apart from a few scratches/texture).

2) As ptoing mentioned, the roof doesn't overlap the actual house, kind of unusual. I wouldn't like to sit by the window when it's raining! Furthermore, there is a shadow that runs right along the top edge of the wall (more apparent at the top of the door), which suggest that the roof overlaps.

Keep it up!
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Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #24 on: August 02, 2006, 06:57:27 am




crits?
please dont worry about mentioning the obvious tile edge in the wave animation, I'll fix that later :P

edit-
btw, added the extra bit to the roof like some people suggested:
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 07:23:29 am by .TakaM »
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Offline Xion

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Re: water tiles

Reply #25 on: August 02, 2006, 09:03:15 am
Much better roof.
Nice wave anim, but with the horizontal movement of the Wind Waker-styled overlay, I think that the head(?) of the wave should also have a horizontal movement.
I don't really like the way the shallow water seems to just be shaking back and forth, though. It's kinda...cheap. But if you somehow make the other depths of water move at different speeds/lengths of time, I think that won't matter.

I really like these tile of yours. Really quite byooteeful.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #26 on: August 02, 2006, 09:31:03 am
thanks, I think Im going to make the WWish layer move with the head of the wave more...

I think I'll make the wave push in diagonally then drop back straight down.. been learning about waves at school lol, so its been an interesting process making the waves.

any suggestions for the movement of the shallow water? Im not really sure what would be best for it.

also, the wet sand underneath the wave, I think I'll do it differently on the next one with the whole patch fading all together instead of how it looks now.. as if the sand was just moving down  :-\
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Offline snake

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Re: water tiles

Reply #27 on: August 02, 2006, 12:56:18 pm
What commes to mind in the wave animation is that the WW tiles shouldn't really be moving to the left or at all, considering that the wave hit the beach from the south with force. It didn't just move the border of the ocean. Natural movement would be the water flowing back into the deep ocean to be pushed back by another wave. Water always retracts in under a new wave, the amount is meassured by the waves size. A tidalwave, for example, would empty an entire beach before the wave strikes.

In this case, once the wave has hit, the water is still, but will gradually gain speed flowing back south again. The 'foamy edge' should really not be there on the return, but should dissolvefrom its edge into a pattern that looks very much like the WW water tiles having dissapeared by the time the new wave is comming.

Hopefully it made some sense, hard thing to explain. The house tiles are looking very good though. Ironic that everyone seemes to be making RPG tiles right now, myself included. Keep it up.

Offline Rox

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Re: water tiles

Reply #28 on: August 02, 2006, 02:04:07 pm
A reference would really really help now. But there aren't many wave-in-motion references...

Anyway, I'm unsure if the kind of wave you're trying to make is the kind of wave you really want. This wave looks fairly "aggressive", the kind of wave surfers take advantage of when they get big enough. Some waves never even break, though, and just look like giant ripples moving over the water. I'm not sure how stormy that ocean there would be, but I think that kind of wave would fit the style better.

No idea how to animate one, though... Again, references would be good...

One thing you don't need a reference for is the line where the beach meets the water. It looks far too defined, and far too dark. It looks almost like the spot where the water stops is a couple of feet below the lighter edge, and I don't think that's the intent. The waves would never have the exact same shape, so it wouldn't be possible to have such a defined line. I think you should try a softer, more gradient like transition. The water should probably break up a little on the way back, too. I was about to say it retreats too slowly, but I don't think it does. Part of the water does, but not all of it. There should be some water lingering after, taking a bit more time to disappear.

... but it's damn hard both to explain and visualize... References anyone?!

Offline ndchristie

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Re: water tiles

Reply #29 on: August 03, 2006, 01:15:35 am
ive found that waves are really not one entity and shouldnt be animated as such.  a wave hits shore, disperses, and then runs back down in little rivulets, dropping the foam if there is any fairly evenly across the sand as another wave comes rushing over it again, pushing the foam into that nice line before running back and spreading it again.  yours is one wave coming up and then receding and coming up again, and that doesnt quite look right
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Offline Faktablad

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Re: water tiles

Reply #30 on: August 03, 2006, 02:00:40 am
Searched a stock photo archive for some references.

Good footage of those small, pond-type waves.
http://www.fotosearch.com/ATB729/vfl123/
http://www.fotosearch.com/ATB729/vfl113/
http://www.fotosearch.com/ATB729/vfl124/
http://www.fotosearch.com/ATB729/vfl108/

Hope this gives you some idea of where to start.  :)

Offline Froli

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Re: water tiles

Reply #31 on: August 03, 2006, 02:50:26 am
I really love the WW water style, because it more lively and it feels like a lot of things are going on that area. And like some others who mentioned it, the tile fits more to the overall image in my opinion.

Offline Dusty

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Re: water tiles

Reply #32 on: August 03, 2006, 08:05:46 am
I went and did a really crappy edit to try to show some of the things I was trying to explain. To be honest, no offense, but I think you were going the easy way out with the animation as it seems you're only moving pieces of the animation. Anyways, I'm not a good animator, but this is what I was trying to explain, even though I didn't get to include all the things in your original animation.
First, I tried to animate the wave crashing over the previous wave. This seems more natural than wave in, wave out, wave in, wave out, as it has a more flowing, continuous movement.
I also tried to animate the foam of the wave when it crashes, as it not moving seemed really stiff(though I only used two animations for that).
Like someone mentioned before, I thought it was also a good suggestion to have the foam fade away as it fell back. Though on my part I did it cheaply, just having the opacity of the foam lowered each time, I think it'd actually be better if it was animated to slowly bubble away, and will also save colours.
Lastly, I did a poor, and quick job of having the sand get 'wet' and dry up as the sand fell back, as the sand absorbs the water.


EDIT: for references... I can't think of many to show directly, but for anyone who has it, I thought the waves done in Kingdom Hearts, on the island were done pretty well.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 08:10:11 am by Dusty »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: water tiles

Reply #33 on: August 04, 2006, 08:31:31 am
wow, thanks for all the advice guys :)

colours got a bit messed up coz of imageready

tiled:

I was going to have foam left on the sand and have it fade away into the sand.. but it was a bit too much work >_>
I will definetly animate the head of the wave for the next version, and might change the idle water underneath all the wave layers.. if I come up with a better way of animating it..
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Offline Dusty

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Re: water tiles

Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 12:50:44 pm
That looks way better.

Offline Skull

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Re: water tiles

Reply #35 on: August 04, 2006, 03:24:57 pm
Great motion, the sea retreat is fantastic. Amazing work.

Offline Sohashu

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Re: water tiles

Reply #36 on: August 04, 2006, 03:29:49 pm
the lip of the wave is not a solid mass.  it changes shape.
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Offline Tremulant

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Re: water tiles

Reply #37 on: August 04, 2006, 03:52:38 pm
I will definetly animate the head of the wave for the next version
heh ;)

Anyway, I love the look of this. I don't know exactly what these tiles are for, but if there is an actual game in the works, I'm readying myself for the world's biggest eyegasm. :P

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Re: water tiles

Reply #38 on: August 04, 2006, 03:55:04 pm
I think you could definetely change the overall hues of the water itself, they don't really fit with the look of all of the other tiles in the game.
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Offline Faktablad

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Re: water tiles

Reply #39 on: August 04, 2006, 04:38:51 pm
the lip of the wave is not a solid mass.  it changes shape.
Agreed.  Also remember the rule that waves usually come in as another wave is retreating.

The sand is much too dark after the wave has come over it.  Your lightest wet sand right now is a good color for the wettest wet sand in your next version.  Am I making sense?  :P

Offline ndchristie

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Re: water tiles

Reply #40 on: August 04, 2006, 04:47:27 pm
my only concern si that you've still got 1 wave going forwards and back over and over.  once a wave breaks it is broken, it doesnt recede in the shape of a wave at all, and then its covered by a completely new wave.  check the videos Fak found youll see what i mean
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Offline 2dgamers

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Re: water tiles

Reply #41 on: August 06, 2006, 05:25:54 pm
Your tiles are amazing! I can't see people can do such great work with tiles. Anytime I try to do tiles they default to looking like tiles from 8-bit castlevania on the NES. :(
Enough about me though, your work is progressing very well!

Offline Figs

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Re: water tiles

Reply #42 on: August 10, 2006, 01:43:05 am
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-306017973745653662&q=beach

How about that?

Yeah, quality is kind of junk, but you can sort of see it. (Found it on google... I'll see what else I can pull up.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2673454611664267643&q=north+shore+oahu
here's another one.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6669539581800418691&q=north+shore+oahu
A little better, but I'm still looking for a close-up.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8507321816367271565&q=beach+surf
Got it. Waikiki. :)
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 01:50:41 am by Figs »

Offline Joseph

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Re: water tiles

Reply #43 on: August 14, 2006, 08:32:35 pm
Wow, they're looking great.  I'm not too fond about the wet-fade-to-dry sand though...looks wierd and doesn't completely fit the style.  Anyway, excellent work.

Offline Faktablad

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Re: water tiles

Reply #44 on: August 15, 2006, 01:45:26 am
From the new stock footage, it looks like that area of wet sand doesn't fade away, but rather retreats towards the sea.