AuthorTopic: GR#186 - Betrayer - Sprite Process  (Read 9499 times)

Offline cels

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GR#186 - Betrayer - Sprite Process

on: March 22, 2014, 05:30:24 pm
Current version:



Original post / earlier versions:

Hey guys,
I'd really appreciate some feedback on this WIP. Primarily in regards to perspective, proportions and anatomy / pose. It doesn't look quite right to me.



Reference (not for the pose, but for the character) here




















« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 12:27:24 am by cels »

Offline Gil

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 05:56:57 pm
Pose is a bit tame to start with, maybe push the foreshortening a bit more? If I find the time, I'll do an edit.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 06:14:45 pm



Khornates are pretty aggressive and all characters in 40k are extremely posey. i did a bunch of sloppy edits, probably all together they add a little too much; but each is an example of what you can do to make it more dramatic. especially the colors should be flashy and eye-catching, something that a desaturated green background doesn't pull off. The stuff in the windows is just to show that you could add fire, smoke, battle effects in general to make them more interesting. You could even use it as another light source if you feel particularly ambitious.

Offline Manupix

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 07:49:12 pm
Yes, perspective is wrong!  :mean:
There are conflicting clues about both angle of view (wide or narrow, corresponding to very near or not so near p o v) and point of view (low or mid-high).
I'll follow the clue from the floor tile: very low, very wide. Something like this:



Consequently, the character should have longer / bigger legs relatively to the torso; the front leg and foot should be significantly bigger than the back leg / foot; the halberd persp should be even more accented as the blade is likely the closest object in the scene; the head should be visibly seen from below.
This option should provide the most dramatic pov on the character.

If you want to explore different options, here are a few hints:

a classic photographic lens focal length comparison with constant subject size (see differences in both bg and fg persp, esp the model's arms); another example; still another (imagine the red cap as your character's head).

« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 07:51:58 pm by Manupix »

Offline cels

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 09:52:05 am
Uh oh, Manupix gave me the frowny face  :-[

Thanks for the feedback, guys! The background was something I rushed in the end and I think it really exaggerated all my problems, so I've removed it. I didn't really want to do some kind of crazy wide lens perspective, but I can see why the floor tiles gave that impression.

And while this is a "berserker" character, I'm actually going for more of a menacing, intimidating look, instead of a frenzied, energetic pose. Not so much evil super villain. Think more Luke Skywalker encountering Darth Vader in "Empire Strikes Back". Darth Vader isn't swinging his lightsaber like a madman, he's just standing there in the darkness, waiting. And then he flips out. So that's what I'm going for. Encountering Khârn the Betrayer in a dark hall.

Aside from the background I think the previous version had a problem with the legs and hips, perhaps.

Maybe this version is better?



Or did it make more sense to have the left leg forward, to balance the heavy chain axe? Fizzick, I don't know if the arms should be so much longer, because they're extending in opposite directions, not hanging right down. And if they were hanging right down, they shouldn't extend far past the crotch. Am I wrong?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 09:53:58 am by cels »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 02:50:18 pm
Sorry  :D

This now looks like seen from eye level.
The feet being much larger than the head don't make sense anymore, contrary to the low angle view (supposing reasonably sized feet!).
Something else slightly disturbing is, the back foot heel should be raised, and the lower leg armor doesn't look different in persp as the front leg (example).

I do think the "menacing, intimidating look" is better conveyed in the low angle view, independently of the pose.

Do you have a DSLR camera? You should have a picture session with a friend, preferably on a tiled floor, and test in a systematic way a range of those 2 parameters: angle of view (= lens focal length or zoom factor, choosing distance so that model size is constant), and height of view.

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 03:46:18 pm
Uh oh, Manupix gave me the frowny face  :-[

Thanks for the feedback, guys! The background was something I rushed in the end and I think it really exaggerated all my problems, so I've removed it. I didn't really want to do some kind of crazy wide lens perspective, but I can see why the floor tiles gave that impression.

And while this is a "berserker" character, I'm actually going for more of a menacing, intimidating look, instead of a frenzied, energetic pose. Not so much evil super villain. Think more Luke Skywalker encountering Darth Vader in "Empire Strikes Back". Darth Vader isn't swinging his lightsaber like a madman, he's just standing there in the darkness, waiting. And then he flips out. So that's what I'm going for. Encountering Khârn the Betrayer in a dark hall.

Aside from the background I think the previous version had a problem with the legs and hips, perhaps.

Maybe this version is better?



Or did it make more sense to have the left leg forward, to balance the heavy chain axe? Fizzick, I don't know if the arms should be so much longer, because they're extending in opposite directions, not hanging right down. And if they were hanging right down, they shouldn't extend far past the crotch. Am I wrong?

Uh oh. I would keep the palette changes, but scrap those strange proportions.  :(
It is important that the parts of any creature move together, but here it looks like he's twisting his right arm backwards and his right leg forwards, which doesn't flow at all. I think the only issue with perspective was with the floor: instead of altering the marine to the floor, you should raise the floor's vanishing point to get a higher shot.

The reason I said lengthen the front arm was because its hand is currently at a horizontal level with the back hand. Now I see that maybe you should shorten the back forearm.

But really, for artistic purposes, I strongly suggest you make this guy less passive. It looks like he's posing for a catalog showcasing his armor and weapons. That's why I bent his knee, twisted his head and gave the eyes a glow. You could consider raising his plasma gun to up a the ready. But his breed of khorne knights never rest. If they're in a fight like it seems he is, they should always be looking for the next IG to crush.

I wonder what the plasma glow would look like green?

EDIT: sorry, I totally missed your paragraph on feel. I totally get that, though. Right now it seems a little flat footed, though. Earth fader was still pretty poised for action. Try bending the knees a little more and leaning him in?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:14:03 am by Fizzick »

Offline cels

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 12:27:40 pm
Well, I feel dirty and cowardly, but I've gone and looked at more references to get a more realistic pose and perspective.

Since I didn't spend too much time on the previous versions, it seemed smarter to start from scratch instead of trying to fix something fundamentally flawed.

At some point, I just need to learn how to draw better, study anatomy and perspective properly and practice with paper and pencil, but... for now, I've taken the easy route and tried to imitate.



References here and here.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:36:12 pm by cels »

Offline tim

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 12:43:19 pm
Well, I feel dirty and cowardly,
[…]
I've taken the easy route and tried to imitate.

Don't feel like that. This is totally ok and part of the learning process.
Actually, I don't know any artist born with such knowledge.
Everybody just study from reality / photos / other drawings.
When you'll feel comfortable enough, then you will be able to rely a little less on them, and more on your brain.
Founder of Odd Tales
Art Director - Game Director - Game designer - Motion designer

Offline cels

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Re: Betrayer (sci fi portrait)

Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 05:24:20 pm
Thanks for the words of encouragement, tim (if that is your real name  :)) I guess I have somewhat unrealistic expectations sometimes.

Here's a slight update.