AuthorTopic: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!  (Read 18642 times)

Offline NaCl

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #30 on: February 01, 2014, 03:09:59 am
I feel like awards, points, leaderboards, etc... only encourage insubstantial contributions. What makes this forum special, to me at least, is the focus and substance of what happens here: people sharing their knowledge to help others grow. The cornerstone of the forum is this critique process and I think any change should be to support this process.

I do however think Atnas makes a good point about HD and 3D art. I wouldn't agree that pixel art is dying, but if we could build the same productive community around these forms of art, in addition to pixel art, I think that would be nothing but good. One simple change could be to separate the low-spec forum into two different forums. One for HD art and one for low-poly 3D. Right now that forum is a very awkward mixed bag. I think that awkwardness is one thing preventing growth in that area of the community.

Offline RAV

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #31 on: February 01, 2014, 10:06:29 am
Yes. Well. The first part is right. And the second isn't wrong either. Yet together they are in direct conflict to each other as things stand.

We must be disciplined in our thoughts here. This is a "chicken -- egg" dilemma, what comes first, the Activity or the people?
The answer though is the Activity of the first few people. But not just any activity, and least of all any activism.

Pixelation is well past the point of just creating some more forum sections to gain traction anymore. The creation of the "Low-Spec" forum was more to try and accommodate the varied interests of remaining members somewhat. But the problem is, Pixelation does neither have the manpower of competence in this field of art nor enough publicity, to be an attraction in that, when there are already other established communities providing all that much better.

Aside from the nostalgia of the hard core, there is no compelling argument for such artists to maintain a presence in that here. If there were any hope, action comes first, a critical mass of a distinct art had to build up creative pressure enough that needs to vent into its own section, rather than hoping that a new section motivates creativity. So this is a classic Münchhausen bootstrap out of the mud. Someone has to bite the bullet, with a lot of exclusive content high profile, although it has little expectations in return, in the hopes of generating expectations returning.

But frankly, so far all we got are symbolic acts of talk. Jump-starting this place out of this func requires a little miracle,
it requires a bold visionary step into no-man's land, it requires bloody work that's a head and shoulder above "competition".

Rather than camping on another's turf, we have to create our own turf anew from scratch. Blue ocean strategy, rather than biting it out in red ocean.

What do we have? Awesome pixel power. Knowledge in traditional arts.
What do we need? A unique difference to what others are doing, drawing on our strength and playing into the current Zeitgeist.

Pixelation should have been the TigSource in the first place.
Or it should have actively tried to profit from Minecraft.
In so far that it is re-imagined towards your sensibilities.
That creative symbiosis is to be invigorating for both parts.
But that calls for professional coding in league with professional art.

So ideally, Pixelation would research its own interpretation of 3-D, prove it successful with exquisite presentations, and become the premier experts on it for creative advice. I can play my part in it, but really, that is quite some serious work, that needs support and space, more than a red headed step child adopted and parked, It needs a dirty dozen of artists putting in some love.

In the past year, I have given glimpses of demonstration and explanations.
And maybe that sounded like being about me, when it is really about you.
In my eyes, this is about more than personal preference or ego, keep that in mind.

So what do I want? What does this mean?
If I felt this would fall on fruitful grounds here, I'd like to release a series of demos as an evolution of voxel graphics that is semi-equivalent to eras of pixel graphics.
Like, if we lived in a parallel dimension of realities, and witnessed just now the invention of graphics from scratch, what would we have done differently, what would this have looked like.
It's not so much about feature suggestion, I have my roadmap to roll out. but on each step you'd try to make the best out what you got, each new part would introduce a game changer.

This kind of work is no joke, it requires serious effort of me, so what kind of effort can I expect from you supporting it here? I do believe that this place has the best potential for it.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 02:45:19 pm by RAV »

Offline RAV

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #32 on: February 01, 2014, 01:55:22 pm
On another note, the Daily Sketch thread starts out well.

This of course has good reasons: everyone of you is naturally used to drawing sketches, everyone is qualified to comment on it, everyone is easily motivated, because it's not something fundamentally new to you and without a high barrier of entry. This is much less true for regular 3-D art. As such, it would make more sense to make a forum section for "Fine Arts", than for further segmenting 3-D. It probably would quickly beat out in activity of a week what Low Spec and consorts had in a year.

The problem though is what we really expect from that either in the greater scheme of things. The Daily Sketch is bound to amuse the same "ten" people that are around anyway, no matter what; that is fair enough, still a valuable addition to forum culture. But it isn't going to draw in new blood in noticable scale, if that is a goal discussed here too. Those are more likely to go to DeviantArt for that, or stick to any other bigger community of art, including those specialized in 3-D, that already has a Daily Sketch of its own.

So there needs to be an exceptional kind of productivity further beyond or inbetween, emerging here unlike anywhere else.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 02:25:50 pm by RAV »

Offline Ymedron

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #33 on: February 01, 2014, 03:59:39 pm
I'd say it's too sad Helm is retiring, but I would guess that you're more relieved than unhappy. It's nice to hear you won't be going away entirely. c:

REV: I'm too tired to parse these fancy words, but are you arguing that Pixelation should become a joint 3D-pixel art forum?
I feel like it doesn't make sense to compete with the likes of Polycount and other 3d art sites. Especially since if it became successful, the pixelart would no doubt become pushed aside anyway.

As a positive suggestion... Hmm.
I guess I'll just second the feature chest needing more use. It makes the site feel less like we're just wandering the ruins of a bygone culture, if that makes any sense.  :-[
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline RAV

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #34 on: February 01, 2014, 04:30:10 pm
Uh, the argument precisely was not to try make this a regular 3D forum, since it can't compete with Polygon, etc.
If the Pixelart were to prosper here instead of stall, it needed to be a TigSource -- but that's already there now, too.
The best bet now is supporting voxel/cube art, in an elaborated form, playing out perfectly the strength of pixel art here.

Even that wouldn't mean "making Pixelation a voxel art forum". It would mean understanding pixel art as a greater family, or "friends with benefits".
Pixel art informs voxel art better than regular 3d, voxel art draws attention to pixel art naturally.
Make a search for "pixelart" on youtube and look through the first ten pages.
You won't like what you see. But that's the tide of times now.
Better try transform this thing into something you do like,
and turn this place into a leading Mecca for that yet unevolved art,
rather than have amateur voxel and pro pixel ignore each other.

Just an idea. You may as well keep to what you know, warming up tasty recipes.
It's not like Pixelation really needs some spectacular growth or something,
it's fine having it be a reliable place you know for good old friends.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 04:37:55 pm by RAV »

Offline Atnas

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #35 on: February 01, 2014, 04:58:25 pm
RAV: You make some good arguments. However I've never seen pixelation as competing for the attention of tigsource or polycount, and I don't think it needs to reinvent itself to be relevant. You can't get consistent or valuable critique on Tigsource because it is not an art forum, and Polycount's scope media wise is far too wide to have any focus on anything other than low spec.

I think Pixelation differentiates itself behaviorally from those other communities, rather than by its content. We could add new boards but that would just spread activity out thinner and could have an adverse effect on growth. I sometimes think the challenge and activity boards would do better simply as stickies on the main boards with a special icon. Pixelation was most active when it had the minimum of boards, adding more has only seemed to lose focus.

When I think of pixelation, first and foremost I think of the dedicated critique you are guaranteed to receive if you show you put in enough effort to prove you'll utilize it. It's the only place I know of with that consistency. There is lots of science and objectivity, and I trust the critique that comes from here more than I would from any other site.

The most immediate changes that would help have already been mentioned. The 'Like' feature, because critique and learning should be the emphasis. On conceptart forums all it seems to do is show how many people thought the art was well done, on pixelation it needs to be clear it means you benefited from the critique. The cookie system encouraged me to be more thoughtful in my critique when it was first introduced, and made me try to elevate my critiques so that my efforts would be recognized. Ideally people will be self motivated, but cookies are irresistible. But when only a dozen or so people even have cookies, it doesn't encourage the majority of people to aim higher. I really believe that a separate rank based on accumulative likes might be a good thing. And a feature to sort out the highest liked posts by board or member, etc, would be the next step. I can see that being a really useful tool.

I'm also in support of a weekly activity. Mockup Monday sounds great. If it doesn't have a good turnout we can do it the first monday of every month. Philadelphia has an every month art venue called First Friday, that rate allows a lot of time for artists to prepare their work every month for display. It gets you excited for what you'll see the next month, or if maybe you'll sell more work the next month, etc. Be careful of people burning out, if an activity is too frequent it won't have the same momentum as it has potential for.

Offline RAV

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #36 on: February 01, 2014, 05:24:05 pm
Actually, I agree with you, mostly. I'm just not sure the rest of the world does. It's not about convincing me. I'm here. A great many more are there.

Places like Polycount are where 3d competence is concentrated such that coming here doesn't make sense for people.
I see many new people on PJ already linking to a Tig project thread for further information instead of Pixelation, never asking for advice here.
So how can we better communicate your idea about Pixelation to new blood these days, is the question.

That aside, what I'm suggesting has the most bang for the buck, reinventing Pixelation less than other options; I think that's the point.

But I won't argue with you the sense or success on what you like to do.
We agree on what's good about the spirit of Pixelation, setting it apart.
The rest is up to you, after all it's your time and energy.
Ideally you would spite my caution and succeed in anything you do,
it would be great if Pixelation could succeed in a variety of ways.

« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 06:34:31 pm by RAV »

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #37 on: February 01, 2014, 06:35:09 pm
RAV: It's obvious Pixelation needs some change to keep with the times. Voxels are an interesting art form and I agree that as pixel artists we have more knowledge of it's assembly than artists coming from a strictly 3D background. I wonder if perhaps the low spec forum could be divided into two separate areas: a high res 2D forum for digitally painted assets, and a 3D forum where low poly counts, pixeled or otherwise low resolution textures, and voxel art were encouraged.

Of course Pixelation should always be very concerned with pixel art. We don't care if it's a "dying" medium or if it is usually only exploited for nostalgia. There is not another forum that I am aware of ( that is english speaking) that gives critique of such high caliber, and seeks to carry on traditional methods and elevate the medium. Indie games still utilize it as a relatively quick and cost effective way to create visuals, but the technique is often sub par. We need to reach those artists and show them the way of the pixel.

About Mock-up Monday: I really don't even know what I had in mind when I brought it up, I just liked the name. What do you guys imagine it to be/ what do you think would be beneficial for the community? It could be a place to simply dump mock ups in ( of any medium) and get general critique and asspats towards composition, arrangement and readability of game assets, color palette, etc.
-and/ or-
It could be a weekly challenge where a title is generated at random, and people create a mockup based on that. it could be completely open, or given restrictions of various consoles, and awards could be given for the best ones.


Offline Cure

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #38 on: February 01, 2014, 06:44:30 pm
I like the idea of a weekly activity, a mockup activity would be awesome too, but I don't think awards are necessary. I kind of like that about Pixelation, the activities are done for their own sake and not for internet acclaim or profile trophies.

Offline ptoing

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Re: I am retiring as a moderator of Pixelation - Also, Changes!

Reply #39 on: February 01, 2014, 06:49:20 pm
OK, Ryu is a mod now. Welcome into the fold.

MM could be similar to what Adam did at some point with the themed demake thing, just not demake. Have a different theme on a weekly/biweekly basis, but keep entries open of course.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.