AuthorTopic: GR#190 - Pacific Grove - Pixel Artwork Scenery  (Read 18478 times)

Offline slym

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GR#190 - Pacific Grove - Pixel Artwork Scenery

on: January 05, 2014, 02:24:09 am
HI.



This image is of course highly WIP. I'm looking for composition critiques more than texture. Of course any critique is welcome  :)

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 06:24:32 am
DUDE. Your foliage just keeps getting better. <3

The composition is a bit unbalanced... Tree on the right, empty on the left, and the slope of the mountain draws the eye toward the center-ish.

But yeah, awesome textures. Looking forward to see it progress! :)

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 06:48:46 am
I agree with tehwexxl0rz, there is too much visual weight on the right hand side, made an edit to illustrate:

Also made the trees smaller because I felt it still affected the weight too much

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 10:41:06 am
The composition is a bit unbalanced... Tree on the right, empty on the left, and the slope of the mountain draws the eye toward the center-ish.

It somewhat make sense for a shore picture, no ? I mean, there's little the ocean might show but boats. Possibly, the clouds could be shifted so that they're over the ocean.

To some extent, I get the feeling that those trees have no room for their giant roots. If the ocean has washed the rest of the ground up to the point it comes to contact to such trees, we should see roots going through the ground here and there, imho.

Offline Kosvid

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 11:34:50 am
The picture is great. I want to stress that I like the original version more than wolfenotics` one, so I think you don`t have to change the whole composition but still have to work with the balance. Add something to the left side. A part of beach with sand, or, may be, rocks with crabs and seagulls (corals won`t fit (suit?)), or at least just sea foam and waves, I don`t know.

If you don`t mind "spoiling" the clear sky, you can add a volcano with a big smoke cloud. It will create some contrast to the bright colors.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 11:38:54 am by Agent00X »

Offline Beetleking22

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 05:45:07 pm
Tree foliage is great.. but I think it has too much lightining.. You should reduce it little bit.

Offline cauli

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 06:21:23 pm
Nice work! I agree you need some weight on the left side.

Here's one suggestion on that.




You could even be subtler by just moving the clouds to top left and the trees a little bit to the center.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 05:20:40 am
Woah! I cannot say enough thanks to all of the incredible comments and critique thank you all so much, it really means a lot to me  ::)

I really loved just about everything everyone said so I tried to combine them all into what I have now. Now I'm curious about perspective and what I can add visually to the new shore area I just added.



Also, a little bit of inspiration for the piece to those who are interested:

The title is actually the name of the first place I lived. I was born in a hospital in Monterrey, California. As a youth I moved quite frequently, 9 times before high school to be exact. Of all the places I've lived, Pacific Grove always had a unique freedom about it. The coolest thing about it to me was that the population, aside from being more elderly, was very adventurous. The shores of the Monterrey bay area have quite a few little divots and somewhat hidden beaches. With this scene I want to be able to depict this free and adventurous, yet mysterious characteristic that the land in this part of California has, and the treasures of nature you can find by parking on the side of a road and walking towards the water.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:32:19 am by slym »

Offline Kosvid

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 09:30:24 am
Wow, I couldn`t even suppose you had lived in such place. Here in Syberia it`s not that colourful, but the nature has its own magnificence.

About the work: now it`s better, but the ocean is still looks like poor because it is empty - just one color. I`m sure you were going to fill it anyway. And the top sky needs something, just like simple clouds, but there are clouds lower. Think of it. May be, a flock of birds will help. Also there is a space in the left down corner where a couple of bright flowers would fit.
I can`t say anything about the perspective, though, yet it hasn`t got enough details. Keep up the work!  :y:

Offline Mathias

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #9 on: January 07, 2014, 12:29:15 pm
Born in Santa Barbara, CA. Moved away when I was 11. I've been to the Monterey Bay Aquarium.


What if you did the looking-out-from-a-thicket thing, where the viewpoint seems to be stationed behind some very near plants crowded around the outsides of the canvas?

The two nearly identical trees on the right bug me. They feel like copies.

Clouds look too solid.

Water seems too green.

Are there waves now? Is this the Pacific? Looks like a lakeside bank, not the edge of an ocean. Dirt, not sand?
If the shore is experiencing that much wave activity, you might try some little caps all over the surface.

Could this little cove be made to look even more private and undiscovered if it had a canopy of tree cover shading it? I can imagine some animals, foxes, squirrels, et, taking refuge in the shade, lazing around.
Some animal life, or even people in sailboats off in the distance, would give this landscape some actual life. Might also offer better focal points.


Too bad the composition is still in flux, you might have to backtrack on some of the polish/detail you've already added.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #10 on: January 07, 2014, 04:28:22 pm
The clouds in this area are often very very low to the ground and fog is very common in Monterrey/Pacific Grove. I also don't want to mess with colors until I'm in the detailing stage.

Hopefully the bigger wave makes more sense now. The idea of putting near plants is great. I'll definitely add some in later on  :)

Again, thank you everyone for such wonderful critique!




The second image is highlighting where I'd like to put the overlay. I've never done one before, so it will be a bit of a challenge for me. Especially since it involves much more of a global lighting aspect that I am unfamiliar with from restricting myself to video game development for so long. Any advice on how to tackle a good leaf canopy overlay?

[edit]

Here's what I have now:


« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 12:01:35 am by slym »

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 09:36:33 pm
The mountain closest to us looks like it will need to be rendered out much more then it would have if it were further away, if you're up for that. It looks like its about 20 feet behind those trees.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 11:15:09 pm
Yeah I agree. Should make it easier for me too =]

« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:30:05 am by slym »

Offline cels

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 12:45:49 am
This looks very beautiful. I will use this as a reference for pixelling similar scenes!  :)

Mr. Fahrenheit touched on the distance of the closest rocks, and to be honest I thought those rocks were huge cliffs several hundred meters away untill I saw your latest version, in which the texture on the water actually makes it seem like they're barely further a stone's throw away. Perhaps that you can put a tiny bit of vegetation on them, or something else that will help establish the scale.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 01:04:11 am


Hopefully this'll clear some things up!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 06:51:24 am by slym »

Offline PsylentKnight

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 12:59:56 am
Sorry if this is a necro, but I just have to say that looks absolutely fantastic.
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Offline Indigo

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 03:50:23 am
I have to commend you for choosing such a challenging subject to pixel for enjoyment.  It'd dope dude.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #17 on: March 06, 2014, 07:10:11 pm


More progress! Getting back on this thing. It's been over a year since I've posted to PJ >.<
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 08:06:01 pm by slym »

Offline Manupix

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #18 on: March 06, 2014, 08:10:24 pm
Wow nice!  ;D

I see a perspective problem. I'll try to explain:

Supposing this is viewed from not much more than human height, and judging from plant/tree sizes, those are not very far (5-10 m at most) then:
1- the waves look like downscaled models from real-size waves;
2- the middle ground coast line is either too low on the horizon relatively to its distance as judged by atmospheric perspective, or too blue for its small distance and size.

If the idea is that this is a small cove as I think it is, you should create more distance between it and the mid ground coast, with more linear / vertically compressed detail, including the coast line. Also maybe 'zoom in' into the close waves and sand.

I tried to find a suitable ref image but couldn't find one close enough. Insert random beach pic ;)

What about the low cloud on the water? Is that fog?

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 08:39:44 pm
Thanks for the Crit! I'm not sure what you mean about the perspective, particularly with the horizon. Maybe this edit will help clarify things?



I figured adding another tree can make it look more secretive. Also, the clouds you mentioned are indeed supposed to be fog =]

[edit]

What about this?

« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 02:44:07 am by slym »

Offline coffee

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #20 on: March 09, 2014, 02:04:03 pm
Hey Slym!
This looks really wonderful so far. I don't think you should mess with perspective a lot more, I like the edit where you had started on the sand etc. It looks best so far imo and the perspective doesn't really look off, I think it has to do a lot more with that some pieces are more detailed so far and it just messed with your focus a bit when you look at it. Although I would change the colours in the background a bit more and make it more pacific, meaning the humidity is higher and I would use a colour more close to the sky.

One thing that I'm not sure about is the fog. I would probably drop it. It doesn't make that much sense since it's daylight
and it would more or less have dissappeared by the time the light is like this and it gets confused with clouds instead.

made a really quick edit:



One last thing! With those kind of waves, there would be a lot more foam going on around the cliffs, didn't have the time to go into that but it could be something to think of.

Looking forward to see this complete =)

/coffee

Offline Manupix

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #21 on: March 16, 2014, 01:23:54 am
Quick perspective edit:



Raised middle- and background to better agreement with the foreground angle of view. If you don't see it then it probably doesn't matter! ;)

I agree with coffee about fog, mostly because seeing right to the horizon gives a lot of depth to the piece.

Offline Neirda

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #22 on: March 16, 2014, 10:37:35 pm
Hi buddy, I really love your pixel art pattern & details, I think the wave is a little bit out of perspective ( seems view on top on flat background ), and also the land is too close of the sea on the right corner,  Here is a little speedpainting I've done for helping, you should increase the horizontal canvas size too belong to me, that often better for landscape...

Offline Alex Sinigaglia

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #23 on: March 20, 2014, 12:13:51 pm
The farther mountains should be less pixelated/square-ish.
I tried to edit it a bit (using coffee's edit):

           coffee's                ->                mine
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 12:15:23 pm by Alex Sinigaglia »

Offline coffee

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #24 on: March 20, 2014, 07:50:31 pm
Yeah, don't pay any mind to the squarish pixels. Was in a hurry and only roughed things down with a larger brush. I think Zlym will refine the squarish forms in the background as he goes as well. It was just an edit to show an alternative direction.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #25 on: May 15, 2014, 02:31:04 am
So thankful for all of the wonderful critique thus far! Here's what I've got now =]



let me know what you think!

Offline tim

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #26 on: May 15, 2014, 03:42:37 pm
It's beautiful, but there is still quite a lot of perspective issue, you didn't study Neirda's edit enough.
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Offline astraldata

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #27 on: May 15, 2014, 04:28:19 pm
It's beautiful, but there is still quite a lot of perspective issue, you didn't study Neirda's edit enough.

That might have something to do with the wave meeting the closer rock formation at almost a straight line as it goes to the bottom left tree roots section of the image. It doesn't show a clear distinction from the background island-looking thing from the foreground rock-formation perspective-wise due to the enormity of that wave. That's not the only issue, but it's the one that sticks out most to me since it tries to separate the foreground and background so harshly with that large wave. It may also help to separate the middle-ground rock-formation into two sections so that the portion nearest the wave in question can be altered to fit the perspective/horizon line a bit more easily without much editing.

Just my 2 cents.
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Offline r1k

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #28 on: May 15, 2014, 09:00:01 pm
personally, the perspective issues are making the peice more interesting for me.  Neidra's is a little boring a cliche by comparison.

Offline astraldata

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #29 on: May 15, 2014, 10:55:18 pm
@r1k
I agree with you on that for the most part, but the green color of that wave makes it look too close to the sandy area than it really should be, as it's difficult to tell how far out into the ocean that wave break actually is. I think the interest lies not in the distortion of the perspective, but in the framing of the foreground area though. A better idea would to bring some of that rock formation out to show some of it through the wave crest as it's washing into the foreground area to give a sense that the rocks are a little closer to the sandy waters than they really are, essentially keeping the cool 'framing' effect he's got going on:

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Offline st0ven

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #30 on: May 17, 2014, 12:27:32 am


this is how my eye currently interprets the perspective you have established in the scene.

Compositionally, watching your progression, it seems a bit random, but the progression adding more weight in foreground elements vs the rather static composition you started with was nice to observe.

The current perspective for me however is a bit jarring.

i applaud you for even having an attention span to attempt pixel art at 600x300 something. i very much do not.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #31 on: May 17, 2014, 06:30:55 pm
What awesome critique! To be honest I'm trying to minimize the amount of dramatic composition changes. I want to make sure I actually finish this thing, I started it in December >.<

With that in mind, I found that a few tiny edits went a VERY long way. Here's what I have so far:

« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 06:56:15 pm by slym »

Offline Indigo

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #32 on: May 17, 2014, 08:22:38 pm
Everyone is right about the most critical issue with this piece is the perspective.  And I can honestly understand the sentiment of not wanting to make such drastic changes to such a large piece, but I highly suggest you try to address the critique anyway.  Your piece is still in such a rough state that it's now or never.  There's really not a lot of pixels that you've made a final commitment to.

With that said, I think there are ways to address the perspective with minimal amount of rework.  The perspective line where the cliff-side meets the water is the primary offender.  If you fix that one line, the piece drastically makes much more sense to the eye.  The issue here is the cliff is suggesting a higher perspective than what the sea-level depicts:

Currently, it's tip nearly meets with the horizon line which would imply it's as far away as that island you have in the distance.  Obviously that's not what's intended.

This can either be fixed by raising the horizon line to meet the suggested perspective of the cliff:


or you can lower the perspective line of the cliff to meet the horizon line:


Just shifting things around in this pretty rough state is fairly painless.  There are other contributing factors to the wonky perspective, but this one was the most major.  Between the two solutions, I think the rest of your piece supports a much higher perspective angle, so I'd probably go with raising the horizon line.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 08:43:50 pm by Indigo »

Offline Gil

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #33 on: May 17, 2014, 09:48:08 pm
Indigo's comment is brilliant. I personally prefer the first edit.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #34 on: May 17, 2014, 10:08:53 pm
Damn yeah that was an incredible fix. Feels much better with this now.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 02:51:15 am by slym »

Offline JoeCreates

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #35 on: May 18, 2014, 05:18:32 am
This looks beautiful.

I have to say I'm not a fan of the last edit, mind. One thing to note with the perspective is that the further into the distance the water gets, the more it should align with the horizon. In all versions the waves rotate counterclockwise as they get into the distance, which is in the opposite direction to what one would expect.

The previous edit makes the cove looks less round and extends the sea and makes it feel like we're looking down more than looking out. I think is only dampens the real issue, the fact that the waves now appear relatively closer reduces the effect of the waves in the distance looking off.

Offline Indigo

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #36 on: May 18, 2014, 06:39:52 am
This looks beautiful.

I have to say I'm not a fan of the last edit, mind. One thing to note with the perspective is that the further into the distance the water gets, the more it should align with the horizon. In all versions the waves rotate counterclockwise as they get into the distance, which is in the opposite direction to what one would expect.

The previous edit makes the cove looks less round and extends the sea and makes it feel like we're looking down more than looking out. I think is only dampens the real issue, the fact that the waves now appear relatively closer reduces the effect of the waves in the distance looking off.

I would definitely agree that my suggestion is not the whole fix to the problem, but only part (an essential part however).  What you say about the perspective of the waves is spot on - I was about to write a follow up post about that issue before I saw your post

as a side note, Slym, I think the latest palette change isn't as pleasant as what you had for the shallow water.

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #37 on: May 27, 2014, 04:06:09 pm
Here's what I have now. I think from now on I'm just going to go ahead and clean and polish the textures and pump the rest of it out. This thing has taken WAY too long >.<

Offline Indigo

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #38 on: May 27, 2014, 11:32:29 pm
with the increased contrast of your latest palette, you're beginning to lose a lot of depth in the scene.  Things, especially in outdoor situations, lose contrast as they move in the distance due to light diffusion (not saying this for your sake really, I know you know this).  The increased contrast is drawing attention to the fact that the rocks on the other side of the beach, although drawn further away, don't *feel* further away.

I suggest removing the darkest shades from that side of the beach, and reserve it for stuff on the close side:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:35:16 pm by Indigo »

Offline Fizzick

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #39 on: May 28, 2014, 02:07:24 am
My opinion may not carry much weight, but I preferred the blueish tint to the shadows of the original. It brought unity between the blues of the sea and the reds/greens of the trees.

Offline Mathias

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #40 on: May 28, 2014, 12:49:39 pm
We need some more color and light action goin' on in here.


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Offline jams0988

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #41 on: May 29, 2014, 05:36:37 am
Quote
We need some more color and light action goin' on in here.
I respectfully but firmly disagree!  :lol:
I love Slym's palette here. Yours is appealing, too, but a little too rainbow-y for my tastes.

Offline cels

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #42 on: May 29, 2014, 09:31:28 pm
I agree with jams0988 that it's two very different styles, but I don't think Mathias' changes can all be dismissed as a stylistic choice.

- The water looks more translucent and shiny, it catches the sunlight more.
- He's added more details to the ocean in the background, reflecting the sunlight
- He's added some light to the tree trunks on the left, which were extraordinarily dark before.
- He's given more depth to the clouds, the distant island, etc
- Bunch of other stuff

Of all these changes, I think Mathias' changes to the water were a particularly nice touch. It really added a new level of realism, IMO.

One thing that I don't like in either slym's latest version or Mathias' edit, is the position of the sun. The sun is touching the horizon, yet the amount of light used on various objects in the foreground and the choice of colours, doesn't really give the impression that the sun is almost gone. The colours are too vivid, too strong. If the sun wasn't there, I would have guessed that it was almost noon.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Offline Mathias

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #43 on: May 29, 2014, 09:51:52 pm
Haha, very good, jams. Others' opinions are always great to hear. No matter what.
I did go a tad crazy with the random colors. Looks like Kinkade had a seizure.


At: cels. You're totally right - the sun's position. It's very confusing. I recommend ol' slym determine what time of day it is and position the sun accordingly.
Because, right now, the sun is saying either "Good morning!" -or- "Guh night!". Yet the scene's lighting (in both my edit's and slym's last version) doesn't feel like either morning or evening.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 10:00:02 pm by Mathias »

Offline jams0988

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #44 on: May 29, 2014, 10:19:40 pm
 :y:
Yar, I do like some of the colors, Mathias, but I think you flattened out the picture a little, which is the main reason I prefer Slym's, still. All his forms look good and chunky, even if they're not totally realistic looking, and there's a good sense of depth because of the darkness under the trees and such.
Your water does look more water-y, but I kind of love Slym's water for some reason. It feels so heavy, like I could reach in and scoop it up like jello or something. That might not have been what he was going for, so he might actually prefer your edit, but I'm digging his water, hahah!  :lol:

Also, I've never liked the fake paper textures art programs have. I don't know why! I'd probably like yours a good deal more if you removed that, heheh.
Anyway, cool edit, and good on you for even bothering to do it. Most people can't be arsed to spend so much effort trying to help other members, so thanks for being a credit to the force, hahah!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 10:23:19 pm by jams0988 »

Offline slym

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Re: Pacific Grove

Reply #45 on: June 01, 2014, 05:37:16 pm
Woah!! Thanks mathias for the awesome edit. I definitely have noticed the palette was lacking interest. Here's what I've come up with so far:



Major Changes:
  • New colors added to the water
  • Simplified texture in the leaves in the farthest back trees
  • Reduced canvas size for a little bit more sanity  :blind:
  • Polishing work on universal grass textures, rocks
  • removed the sun... it was cool but I'm not feeling redoing the entire palette to make the time of day match the sun
  • Sharpened the style, edges have more highlights, more brave with shadows, etc
  • modified the shape of the waves closest to the sand

I'm still working on addressing all of the critique. I am so thankful for all of the incredible tips and advice. This piece has come a LONG way so far. I'll keep hacking away at it!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 09:42:11 pm by slym »