AuthorTopic: GR#148 - Slashing Animation  (Read 16922 times)

Offline astraldata

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 06:41:51 am
Nice slash animation there dude.

And I second the recommendation of that book. It's hella cheap on Amazon, and for what and how it teaches you, I've not seen or heard of anything that tops it yet.

Also echoing what wolfenoctis mentioned, as far as animation in pixel art goes, it's definitely good practice to keep your animations rough until you've nailed the movement you're after.

It's difficult to realize this as a beginner to both pixel art and animation, since, if you're anything like I was when I got started, you'll probably be thinking "well, the more I can copy/paste in an animation, the less work I'll have to do later since most of the pixel-work is already done," which is faulty logic when it comes to animation where small expressive sprites are required (such as the case is with yours) because a single pixel in the wrong place can ruin the form you're trying to express, and this is double-true when that tiny set of pixels need to express subtle movement over multiple frames (since there is no concept of sub-pixel movement when it comes to animations in small sprites -- so you'll have to use other colors/shades to blur the pixel between two locations, or leave that pixel where it is until the correct moment when the movement is significant enough to allow it to translate to a new position).

As mentioned/shown already, it is better to redraw the image in flat colors if your sprite is small (and only copy/paste static chunks with slight tweaks to simulate perspective shifts when the sprite is large, redrawing everything else in flat colors that connects the chunks together) because this gives you the ability to change subtleties in the essence of your movement + expression (even at very small scales such as this one), and that stuff does matter very much. You should put in as much -- or more --  thought and work into planning your movement as you do into your pixel-placement.

If you play with it long enough, you'll find that animation can be just as fun, perhaps even moreso, than drawing/designing the character itself. This sense of enjoyment only comes when you realize that animation is not just something you have to do for your game, but what actually gives your characters and worlds their life, and this can be changed easily by simply tweaking a motion where you might think a character *should* go up, and making him go down instead. The more you play with it, the more you do your own thing with your movements, the more you'll both learn and enjoy it. Though, whatever you do, remember that you've got to keep a sense of weight and follow-through in your motions (even the impossible ones), or they'll be dull and lifeless.

Motion is simply the translation of mass and energy from one point to another, usually in the form of an arc.

In the slashing animation you have here, figure out the main arc of the slash, and make the head/body/shoulder/arm/elbow/hand follow it in succession. What you do with the *rest* of the body is what gives your slash the 'expression' wolfenoctis was referring to.

In the case of what I was describing to you earlier, that's a standard kendo/samurai style slash, but your character doesn't need to be a master japanese swordsman if that's simply not in his character. He could slash just like you would swing a bat, and as long as the body moved convincingly enough (i.e. it expressed sufficient anticipation, action, & recovery to compensate for the entire motion), it would be an effective animation, no matter what way you decided to move the body or sword during the attack.
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Offline Zizka

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 09:28:06 pm
@wolfennoctis:

Quote
. Now there is a reason people tend to look down on copycats and plaigerisers, they are seen to be ripping off someone elses work rather than doing the effort of coming up with their own and the practice is rightly frowned upon.

Well, hopefully I haven't been branded as this kind of person just yet.  :yell:

Quote
See the difference, the expression of my movements are my own, but I used the same principles as that of chasm's sprite instead of copying the expression of chasm's sprite.

To be honest, I still think your new version is *really* similar to chasm's one. Instinctively I would've said that it's not different enough to say you've personalized it. Goes to show the whole thing is sort of subjective after all (nice animation by the way). I think that when it comes to digital art, the boundary between what belongs to others and what belongs to you is very, very thin and very much so debatable.

I have the book you mentioned, Pixel Pile Driver had already suggested it to me  ;D.

Anyhow, I'll rework the second one to make it more of my own and will share the result here.

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 09:45:18 pm
Dont worry, I dont think anyone thinks you are copy cat or whatever. You've been around here for a while and have worked on a lot of things.

Just keep working on it  :)

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #13 on: December 06, 2013, 03:48:49 am
Well, hopefully I haven't been branded as this kind of person just yet.  :yell:
You haven't, you've just been made aware of the risk of this happening if you copy others work too closely and present it as your own. Also don't take things too personally, if I thought you were a copycat I would come right out and say it, it was just critique and a kind warning.

To be honest, I still think your new version is *really* similar to chasm's one. Instinctively I would've said that it's not different enough to say you've personalized it. Goes to show the whole thing is sort of subjective after all (nice animation by the way). I think that when it comes to digital art, the boundary between what belongs to others and what belongs to you is very, very thin and very much so debatable.

Of course it is, I used the exact same principles: the anticipate moving the char back before the swing, the swing itself wich is a wide arc and the recovery to the idle stance. The whole point I was trying to get across is that you can use the same principles but with a different expression of movement. These principles are not the creation or the property of the animator of chasm's sprite but relatively common in sprite animations, his expression of movement is however his own creation even though he "copied" the principles used by many other sprites.

You can use the same principles, but don't copy the expression of movement.  ;D

Offline ErekT

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 03:51:53 am
Quote
I did and I got the first result. Maybe I need to use a mirror or something.

Mirrors are good.

In the first animation, your character keeps his free hand resting on his hip. That's a bit relaxed for someone in a knife/sword fight where limbs and guts might go flying, isn't it? When acting out the motion you'd best think through how you'd act in the actual situation. Someone wants to kill you! You have a blade in your hand. What do you do? Even for a baseball bat swing, you'd be likely to put your whole body into it and that's just a ball coming at you.

Offline Zizka

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 12:16:10 pm
@wolfenoctis:

I see what you mean, don't worry. I think this whole topic (is it different enough or not to use it in my game) would probably lead to an interinable tale of various equally valid opinions pretty much because of this sentence:

Quote
relatively common in sprite animations, his expression of movement is however his own creation even though he "copied" the principles used by many other sprites.

I can really see how one could get in an endless lexical argument as to what is copied, what is inspired, what is a reference, which principles are ''public domain'', what is ok and what is isn't according to one and not the other, etc...

I don't know if you understand what I'm saying but anyways, let's leave it at that, the objective of the thread isn't to debate about this anyway. I'll edit the sprite according to what I think is different enough to warrant using it in my game and we'll take things from there.

@ErekT: Actually, the hand is supposed to be in front of his torso but I think I need to redo that as well. Again, thanks for the input.

Offline coffee

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #16 on: December 06, 2013, 04:46:37 pm
People put a lot of time and thought into their projects and it often becomes somewhat like a baby. Artists on the internet are very exposed so that's a reason for the harsh tone it might take sometimes. It's hard to track down and get a formal closure to something that breaks copyright when we are spread all over the globe, almost impossible.

It was my first thought when I saw the animation as well, that it looked very much like the Chasm one. However it's good to do things other do just to understand what they have done. Just don't make it a habit and never stop trying to develop your own style and mark on you art.

It's a great feeling when people can see that it's you who've made the art without knowing beforehand.

So try to make your own version of it ! Because now I can't really see the difference.

/coffee

Offline Daimoth

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 05:38:15 pm
Regarding the whole p,agiarism thing, i posit that the Chasm animation is a logical place to start in terms of reference sbecause of its simplicity. Animation is intimidating, it is only natural to take small steps at first. I doubt this is he first or last time there will be Chasm like swing anims, tbh.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 06:50:57 pm
there were about 508304 with a similar slashing animation like Chasm has before this animation was created.
I mean a simple swordstroke always will look like a swordstroke (with about 508304 more or less subtle variations).

If you act a swordstroke out you will come to a very similar movement.

Also if we look at Kendo and Aikido videos of sword techniques we will see that the ideas of how the feet move and how they weight is shifted is heavily inspired by reality. THe rest is simplification and timing.

If it'd be a super characteristical animation only the character has (like Sonic's Dash attack) I'd go and call something plagiarism, but not for simple movements.
I mean all walk and run cycles also work with the same principles over and over and over again.

And I never heard that the basic 3 sprite RPG walk is plagiarism of game xy.
[sarcasm]we should bring that up once somebody is posting a rpg sprite next time[/sarcasm]  :crazy:
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Offline coffee

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Re: Slashing Animation

Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 09:47:09 pm
Well no, there are plenty of ways to make a sword slash animation since there are no rule saying there is a certain way to slash a sword in a digital world. However since there were plenty of people reacting on it looking almost exactly the same does say something. I'm not calling plagiarism, I'm just against taking shortcuts to make something look good without actually learning something, like someone mentioned earlier. There is a big step without any really explanation between the first version and the second, upping the quality of the animation several dots.

and coming out with a version inspired by your own imagination and with your own style on it will probably make you a better artist. Why is that not sought for?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 09:56:15 pm by coffee »