AuthorTopic: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...  (Read 20906 times)

Offline Katakus

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I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

on: July 17, 2006, 02:42:26 pm
All I wanted to do was post one of my creations that I thought was good. I wanted to get some helpful feedback or some "Good job!"s but no, I was accused of "tracing an image", laughed at and the main reason that makes me mad is that not one person believed that I drew it.

And after all of this happening to me, I am the one who gets warned. Yes, that makes tons of sense to me. Thanks a lot you most polite and friendly community.

This is what I actually did if you were wondering:
What I did was I tried my hardest to draw the image just by looking at the picture and then trying to make my drawing exactly the same. It turned out fairly good like that, but I wanted it to be better; so I pasted in the actual image beside my replica and touched it up a bit, making sure all of the facial features were in the correct spots and making the shape of the hair and face was the hardest part. It still is a bit messy but it is still good. I guess you can see now why it took me so long to make.

On other forums, the only comments which I received were, "Great job!" or "That's terrific, keep up the good work!"

All I am asking for is an apology.
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Offline GOODNIGHTdestroyer

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 03:35:21 pm
They're not going to apologize because they know you traced it. They've seen all too many times before, and they know what it looks like when it happens. So take it as it is, and move on. It's not like they are punishing you.
And I am finally seeing that you were the one worth eating.

Offline Helm

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #2 on: July 17, 2006, 03:57:03 pm
If there's an apology in order, it's by you. If you don't like how we handle things here, go to the other forums. You will NOT get praise for ripping here. Reconsider your usage of the forum.

Offline CrumbBread

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #3 on: July 17, 2006, 04:03:45 pm
Do you *want* all of the comments you recieve to be "Good job!"? Or would you rather have useful criticism? You will notice that there are some useful non-accusatory suggestions in the Mona Lisa thread, if you go back and look for them. I believe you if you say you did not trace it -- but can you see how traced it looks? (Probably you wouldn't notice unless you have seen lots of traced work, so it is understandable)

You don't need an apology, you need to edit your pixel work so it isn't so scratchy and trace-ish. Try to improve instead of taking offense.

I will grant you that people here can be the teensiest bit bloodthirsty, and sometimes they make some unfounded accusations. Do try to understand where they're coming from: they don't want the forum overrun by people faking work.

I believe it took you three hours, too -- I am as slow as you are ^_^ But your pic is still in the "rough lineart" stage. I suggest you try to polish it up some more.

I don't think you did anything wrong (if the pic is untraced).

Offline AlexHW

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #4 on: July 17, 2006, 04:07:29 pm
Try not to be too defensive Katakus, and look at it from other's point of view.
There's no absolute way of knowing what you did or didn't do, but the resulting image is suggestive of its expressive qualities, and one is it's closely relative likeness. This likeness seems pretty spot on and could be infered as to have been traced.
You may have very well took 3 hours to pixel it, but we only see the final result of your effort and must come to our own conclusions.
If your goal was to create a likeness of the mona, then you succeded. It's not about feeling good and being praised as it is about reaching your goals.
What is your next goal?

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #5 on: July 17, 2006, 04:22:53 pm
Pixelopolis isn't a forum for praise, it's a forum for getting critique (sometimes harsh) in order to improve your skill. You have to check your ego at the door. If you want open praise only, open a Deviantart account.

- Adam

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #6 on: July 17, 2006, 09:40:17 pm
I'm with the OP this time. People like Helm talk way too rude for the average mind. Of course, we are here to criticize one others art. But we aren't here to destroy their confidence and make them leave in fear. On the contrary, as a member of this community you should do your best to provide objective criticism, in a nice way with calm words and make them feel accepted in this forum. For you were accepted first.

Conclusion: fuck harsh people.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2006, 09:44:21 pm by Lick »
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Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #7 on: July 17, 2006, 09:44:02 pm
if i didnt get a harsh entry into pixelopolis, i wouldnt be half as skilled as i am now.

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #8 on: July 17, 2006, 09:48:30 pm
if i didnt get a harsh entry into pixelopolis, i wouldnt be half as skilled as i am now.
Only if you knew this for sure.. But you don't. You don't know how it would've turned out if the first reply WASN'T harsh. Perhaps you'd be even more excited to improve yourself. But that's speculating, just like what you're doing.

Objective criticism doesn't always come with harsh assumptions.
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Offline pixelblink

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #9 on: July 18, 2006, 02:32:19 am
I can't believe it's not butter!

Seriously though, I didn't find the accusations to be harsh in any way whatsoever. Experienced pixellers know the difference of what is traced/edited/whatever to something original and has actual time spent on.

You won't find any difference over at the PJ forums either. Take what you've learned and try something new. OR, bitch and complain and do nothing else ever again because you cry too much.

Was that too harsh? oops
...meh

Offline nvision

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #10 on: July 18, 2006, 04:33:25 am
Meh.  Grow some thicker skin, or stop making art.  Criticism is par for the course.  The best professor I ever had in university was the same one who brought several students to tears with his critiques.  He's incredibly successful, and would cut through the crap to get to what needed to be improved in someone's artwork.

If you want to see "harsh," trying sitting in on some portfolio reviews at gaming companies.  Helm's advice will seem like the most gentle suggestion, in comparison.

Aside from this, forum use is a privilege, not a right.  If you don't like the atomsphere, try elsewhere or start your own.

Offline Helm

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 04:46:18 am
As long as I am involved on the management level with Pixelopolis/ation, you can bet there will never be a casual attitude towards ripping/editing. If that's what someone is into, I'm sure there's lots of forums catering to that low-effort type of creative passtime. This place is what it is because we take the craft seriously and do not reward neither art empty of effort or comments empty of critique.

If someone, like Lick, finds my choice of dealing with offenders unnecessarily harsh, they should consider that is not because I am anyone's parent and wish to direct them to proper practises through my criticizing. In my experience, once a ripper, almost always will remain a ripper. My main concern is for them to absolutely not take advantage of this forum with their ripped garbage. There is no healthy critique process when there's deceptive intent. Whether my being harsh benefits or damages their inspiration (and there are cases where both have happened) is not the point.

Offline lief

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 06:42:13 am
It is harsh here... and not really fair sometimes... and most of the great pixellers are assholes.... and i don't like the color of the forum.  I only come here to give people like you some advice so stop feeling sorry for yourself and just fkn pixel something. 

Offline .TakaM

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #13 on: July 18, 2006, 06:51:07 am
Ive been thinking, what could I say that hasnt already been said?

and theres pretty much nothing, just get over it, so you got caught.
I dont care, I doubt anyone here really cares. just dont try to play them as the badguys for catching you out. its perfectly understandable you dont like really harsh criticism, but I dont think youre going to get anyone to apologise and say they believe that you drew that picture without tracing, or just reducing the colours :-\

it really isnt a big deal and you dont need to make it out to be one.
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #14 on: July 18, 2006, 07:07:24 am
I have no problem with harsh. Harsh implies being strong-worded with one's criticisms, and I don't mind taking blunt critique for my work here. I'd categorize the mods here more as curt if anything. They generally tend to waste no words and cut right to the point. If someone posts expecting general praise, then it really is the wrong forum. And Pixelation, however harsh, can with dedication turn people into great pixellers. It got me to a point where I now have a career, and I've also seen artists like Josh Astorian go from sloppier, rough pieces to top notch professional work. I had a meeting with our producer at Warner Bros. today, and he couldn't stop gushing about Josh's Justice League sprites.

I've had plenty of problems with the Pixelopolis & Pilxelation mods in the past, although this usually tended to relate to policy and censorship (and never involved Helm or Alex directly). So I come here knowing I may disagree with the policy and choices made. But for the most part I think they do pretty well, and I've never had a problem with Helm in particular so far as I can recall.

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Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #15 on: July 18, 2006, 08:44:08 am
The fact that this board allows growth for professionals and the talented doesn't mean it should leave all the hobbyists/n00bs where they are. I could well imagine that someone is lurking and being attracted by the nice people here, but then get scorned because he finally decided to post something of his own. I mean, you're only being fair to one group here.
The orthodox pixelopolis tribe. And I don't care how professional and great the tribemasters are, if they come to this board to blow some stress off the n00bs, then they should really rethink the purpose of this board.
This is a C-O-M-M-U-N-T-Y. The best definition found on Answers.com:
3a. Similarity or identity: a community of interests.
3b. Sharing, participation, and fellowship.
If you see a n00b, don't act like you're blind. I'm sure you can recognize one. Don't be blunt. Don't have an ego. For those characteristics don't come with professionalism, not even remotely, and they can't compare with a heart for this community to grow as a family, not a beneficial hell.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 08:45:52 am by Lick »
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Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #16 on: July 18, 2006, 08:49:44 am
If someone, like Lick, finds my choice of dealing with offenders unnecessarily harsh, they should consider that is not because I am anyone's parent and wish to direct them to proper practises through my criticizing. In my experience, once a ripper, almost always will remain a ripper. My main concern is for them to absolutely not take advantage of this forum with their ripped garbage. There is no healthy critique process when there's deceptive intent. Whether my being harsh benefits or damages their inspiration (and there are cases where both have happened) is not the point.
It -IS- a point. As a member and what? moderator? of this forum, I think it's your RESPONSIBILITY to follow these Rules. You're simply obliged to follow them. It's true that you're not forced to not-being-an-ass, but if you are then: you are the one who's wrong here and you are the one who should accept this boards attitude.

As a sidenote, I don't want you to say "The OP broke the rules so why should we keep them?" but you should rather understand that if you don't follow the rules, you will not be qualified to judge others. Just like Jesus said. ::)

-edit- rephrased.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 09:02:35 am by Lick »
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Offline ptoing

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #17 on: July 18, 2006, 10:44:59 am
OK, Helm might have been a bit harsh, rude even, I give you that. You might have worked over 3 hours on it, but it sure does not look it and it does look like a converison (I am not saying it is one, that's beside the point). It's just that it is VERY rough, has extremely strange pixelplacement and is not very clear in the features. So I can understand where people get the idea it's a straight rip.

Also you should never expect this forum to be all "whooo nice, awesome". This is not what this is about and if it's all you are after then perhaps rethink why you do pixelart or art in general.

My advise is to lose some of your temper, try again and show us what you can do without copying, so something original, get crits on that and get better.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #18 on: July 18, 2006, 10:52:31 am
if you dont want to be accused, show your progress from the start to the end, and any reference. by us seeing the progress we can tell that its pixeled.

Offline CrumbBread

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #19 on: July 18, 2006, 01:35:25 pm

Offline Gil

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #20 on: July 18, 2006, 02:34:55 pm
It's colour reduced, and badly done at that. No point in talking about it... Find yourself another more gullible forum...

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #21 on: July 18, 2006, 04:01:53 pm
The orthodox pixelopolis tribe. And I don't care how professional and great the tribemasters are, if they come to this board to blow some stress off the n00bs, then they should really rethink the purpose of this board.

That's not happening and you know it. As curt as the mods' behavior can be at times, they've never single anyone out. And they're not mean to be mean - the pic in question was not hand-pixelled. That's obvious to anyone who can pixel worth a damn. It lines up perfectly with the original image, pixel for pixel, and there are details in the pixelling like stray pixels and chunky lines (see above her left eyebrow) that don't make sense as an artistic choice, but are common in auto color reduction because the computer doesn't know how to reduce a line so it jumps back and forth. The pic was obviously traced, and it may not have been even entirely pixelled. I'm not one for witch hunts, but come on, Katakus. Are you really going to keep pushing the subject and pretend it's not any of these things?

Like I said, there's a lot to be learned in a place like this. And open praise is generally worthless. Think of this forum as a boot camp. You don't cry at boot camp, you focus and improve. Don't like boot camp? Head elsewhere. This isn't your forum.

- Adam

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #22 on: July 18, 2006, 04:05:29 pm
i kinda did a process on how your image could have been achieved katakus. along with a 50 percent alpha layer image showing that it was traced..

Offline Helm

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #23 on: July 18, 2006, 04:53:27 pm
Quote
The fact that this board allows growth for professionals and the talented doesn't mean it should leave all the hobbyists/n00bs where they are.

I am not pro, I am a hobbyist. There's a vast difference between someone who is new and his art isn't very good (whom generally have been helped in this forum) and someone out to actively decieve. I don't know what your agenda is here, Lick, but you're off the mark as far as facts go: Once someone misuses the forum as Katakus did, you get harshly reminded what this forum is about, you get warned to not do it again, and you get watched. You do it a few more times and you get banned. This may seem unfair to you, oh what cruel mods can be, but I think it's unfair to take advantage of the users of pixelation by decieving them. Open dialogue about this things is nice and illuminating, but also what needs to be done will get done, in the end.

Rippers will never be welcome in pixelopolis in any way. They need not sign up, they need not try to test our eyes at spotting their duplicity, and they need not cry about being found out after.

Offline Katakus

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #24 on: July 18, 2006, 04:57:46 pm
Now these are some usefull comments. Thank you. I guess I won't have to leave this forum after all.

I guess some people just will never believe that I did not trace the image, and I can see how you would get the idea. I could never blame someone of doing such a thing, how can someone have pride in just changing the colours of an image?

I wasn't really want people to praise the image I did want some criticism too, but not accusin me of tracing an image. :-\

I'll edit the image later to clean it up a bit.

Quote
if you dont want to be accused, show your progress from the start to the end, and any reference. by us seeing the progress we can tell that its pixeled.
I guess I will have to from now on at this forum. Maybe to prove to everyone who doesn't believe that I drew it, I will redraw it from scratch showing my progress. Does that sound good?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 05:02:52 pm by Katakus »
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Offline ptoing

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #25 on: July 18, 2006, 05:07:53 pm
you dont really have to prove yourself like that. Just do a new image perhaps something completely different and maybe not even from reference, just out of your head, and post a little progress with that.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Pawige

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #26 on: July 18, 2006, 05:10:23 pm
Katakus, I think your best thing to do now would be to post some completely original art. If you show your actual skill level everyone will be a lot more likely to believe you in a situation like this. Remeber that it's really impossible for us to tell if you're good at recreating things by eye, or are just a "cheater." There have been some rather bald-faced liars around here before, so I think many people are a bit jaded.

Offline Katakus

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #27 on: July 18, 2006, 05:18:06 pm
@ptoing
Okay.

@Pawige
Well I posted a topic with my avatar and I also posted a strange Mario which I drew. I'll post some more when I get back to my house.

Quote
i kinda did a process on how your image could have been achieved katakus. along with a 50 percent alpha layer image showing that it was traced..
That made my image look like it was definatly traced. lol. I swear thoug, that I didn't.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 05:32:52 pm by Katakus »
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Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #28 on: July 18, 2006, 10:54:10 pm
@ CrumbBread: About the incorrectly spelled word, yeah I'm sorry I was in a hurry, I just came back from 14 hours of Rotterdam and zoo! ;)

@ Ryumaru: That's a great advice. Great, as in how disappointingly it is, that it will be necessary at our forum to prevent harshness [a form of flaming in my eyes].

@ Adam: In my opinion, one should indeed receive proper criticism, no doubt. One should also receive a proper explanation of the rules of this forum, if he or she isn't aware. I agree! But the way it's acted out (by a mod !), bothers me. It could've been a bit nicer.. Like how you treat a guest when he is visiting your home for the first time. That way of nice.
Oh, and I don't think this is intended as bootcamp (with yelling officers) at all? You probably need to contact one of the founders of Pixelation/Pixelopolis to make sure, but I do not think it was EVER a forum of strict teachings and harsh takedowns. If you can tell me this with certainty then I will shut up.

@ptoing: The OP didn't even really ask for praise in the first place (IIRC he only posted it in this thread), but he did not expect harshness either, AT ALL. A bad surprise, in my opinion. Silly that that was his first topic here, too.

@ Helm: I think I should rephrase. What I meant by hobbyists was people who like to look around and post some simple things perhaps, but don't take pixeling as serious as the other group does. The other group studies the greatness of this art and how to use different techniques to achieve different outcomes. That's the group (what a meant with "professiona") I think you belong to. But the thing I want to say is that the latter is not the ONLY group that is allowed to participate in this forum. So as the forum rules apply to both groups, the first group should be treated the same as the last, for they are equal and by no means will the "professional" group have the rights to take down the (what I called) "hobbyists" group.
I agree that rippers are a bad thing and aren't supposed to stay ripping in long term. But if one is not aware, then the punishment is at least not as heavy. [That is how the gouverment laws are, in real life.]
And if you suspect (never assume) he IS aware, then ask him! And if he replies with a denial, then trust him! WHAT can possibly be lost if you act like that? [a few kb of webspace, huh?] If he continues to be suspicious, then it's better to ADVICE him in a PM or e-mail to start learning. No need for public takedowns.

Katakus, I am very glad that you decided to stay. As I don't think my opinion will penetrate to many, please endure the harsh comments in the future!

« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 11:01:19 pm by Lick »
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Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #29 on: July 18, 2006, 11:04:43 pm

@ Ryumaru: That's a great advice. Great, as in how disappointingly it is, that it will be necessary at our forum to prevent harshness [a form of flaming in my eyes].


if you went and climbed a mountain nobody ever heard of, then went back to your hometown trying to tell people about it. if you didnt have proof you climbed it, couldnt it all just be a load of bs?
btw, once your skills are high enough, we will be able to tell its pixel art and you wont have to show your process.

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #30 on: July 18, 2006, 11:12:01 pm
Yup, you're right. But I actually aimed more at the fact that there probably will not be, a nice response and explanation why it is not appreciated here. Instead, we just yell at the goddang n00b. ;) Haha..
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Offline Gil

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #31 on: July 19, 2006, 02:26:34 am
Oh, and I don't think this is intended as bootcamp (with yelling officers) at all? You probably need to contact one of the founders of Pixelation/Pixelopolis to make sure, but I do not think it was EVER a forum of strict teachings and harsh takedowns. If you can tell me this with certainty then I will shut up.

Actually, pixelation has always been a forum you go to for harsh crits with a "no cry" policy. Examples of that are the notorious "100 characters" rule, the "serious critique" forum that used to exist and even the time where a poll existed that you needed to ace to even sign up...

Pixelation is open to anyone, but it comes with strict rules. Pixelopolis has been more open from the start, it'd be a shame to have to institute a number of rules to enforce stuff that should be second nature anyway...

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #32 on: July 19, 2006, 05:49:20 am
Yup, you're right. But I actually aimed more at the fact that there probably will not be, a nice response and explanation why it is not appreciated here. Instead, we just yell at the goddang n00b. ;) Haha..

It has nothing to do with n00bs. It has to do with what's posted and created. Stop trying to make the mods out to be anti-newcomers, because that's never ever been the case.

- Adam

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #33 on: July 19, 2006, 09:48:06 am
If you want open praise only, open a Deviantart account.

- Adam
oooouuuuch... :D
@Katakus: just like other people said, show people something new and original. then people will be able to see what level of skill you possess, and if that level of skill is enough to create something like the mona lisa pixel art.
and you know, i'd just take harsh comments for what they are: chances to improve. some stuck-up guy always letting you down?improve, and shove your great work in his/her face!
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Offline Sohashu

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #34 on: July 19, 2006, 09:51:48 am
I Know for sure that this forum has made me better.  Before I came here, I thought I was among the best(deluded I know).  I got a harsh start, and it made me strive, just to get half as decent as people here.  And all i got on other forums was praise, which deluded me even further.  So really, take it in your stride and take aboard the advice. 
Back from hiatus, just remembered how excellent this community is at forming technique in a fledgeling artist of any kind.

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #35 on: July 19, 2006, 10:04:35 am
It has nothing to do with n00bs. It has to do with what's posted and created. Stop trying to make the mods out to be anti-newcomers, because that's never ever been the case.

- Adam
Define "newcomer". Is it someone who is new and posts something that is qualified as pixel art? I know you treat people who post qualified pixel art well. That's not my point.
What I meant with n00b was the ignorant one who doesn't post real pixel art. Those are the cases that need no assumptions, but nicely performed investigations. I firmly believe that a sharp description (nothing harsh needed) of what pixel art really includes, is more than enough to clear that ignorant mind.
I can bet a finger that the next post he mades will be the type of pixel art you want from him. Other wise, repeat once more and I give you another finger if he doesn't. I'll give you up to 3 fingers like this boards rules state. ;)


Don't get me wrong! I know that this forum does its special thing and does that very well. And that's appreciated by many, including me. But I want to know, if there's a little chance to resize that special thing to embrace a lower step so it reaches a wider public.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 10:06:12 am by Lick »
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Offline Ryumaru

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #36 on: July 19, 2006, 10:05:33 am
when i first came to the forum, i thought i was almost as good as stoven(i went through a phase, were if it had a small amount of colors and it looked easy from zooming up, i thought i could do it.)
and i was HORRIBLY wrong.
atleast now im a bit closer to the level i thought i was at.

Offline flaber

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #37 on: July 19, 2006, 10:16:38 am

@ Helm: I think I should rephrase. What I meant by hobbyists was people who like to look around and post some simple things perhaps, but don't take pixeling as serious as the other group does. The other group studies the greatness of this art and how to use different techniques to achieve different outcomes. That's the group (what a meant with "professiona") I think you belong to. But the thing I want to say is that the latter is not the ONLY group that is allowed to participate in this forum. So as the forum rules apply to both groups, the first group should be treated the same as the last, for they are equal and by no means will the "professional" group have the rights to take down the (what I called) "hobbyists" group.


ahem...
there are professional artists here. professional artists work for different companies either free lance or fulltime. They create graphics for paid/commercial games. There are a select few here that are on that professional level.

then there are the hobbyists.
a hobbyist is a person who persues an activity. a person who persues is someone who strives, trys to gain, and or accomplish. By these terms its meaning people who are wanting to get better with their art, with no true real purpose other than fun/amusment. this group practically applies to nearly everyone here. People come here to post their work to improve and get better. they ask for crits, suggestions and ideas. By asking for such crits, the person begins to learn the different techniques. They look at other people who post here and see what they have done for any ideas for themselves.
By giving a true critique you break down the process of another and analyze.

so when you say
Quote
What I meant by hobbyists was people who like to look around and post some simple things perhaps, but don't take pixeling as serious as the other group does. The other group studies the greatness of this art and how to use different techniques to achieve different outcomes.
it confuses me.

the remainder of the population appears to me to be the one time posters.. the lurkers.. and the trouble makers.

im pretty sure katakus is doing this as a hobby, because it seems to be an interst of his outside of regular life and he is not being paid.
please understand what you are even talking about before trying to argue a point. It is very difficult to take this for its full intention when it is not even stated correctly.

personally, i feel this thread is beinging to lose focus.
Iv been watching for awhile and what i can see is Helm being singled out and bashed for nothing very seriouse, and that this is beginning to turn into an arguement/flame war

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #38 on: July 19, 2006, 10:24:40 am
If you take out the words hobbyists and professional, and only follow the explanation of the groups, i think it's pretty clear (although abstract). I understand that at first it might've sound weird, but that what you've quoted should clear the confusion I made earlier. If not.. I apologize.

Conclusion of my opinion of this case: being anti-rippers doesn't allow you to break rule #1, even if you're a moderator or just very very serious about pixel art. Besides, a real bootcamp wouldn't have had that rule.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 10:27:37 am by Lick »
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Offline CrumbBread

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #39 on: July 19, 2006, 02:14:02 pm
Quote
@ CrumbBread: About the incorrectly spelled word, yeah I'm sorry I was in a hurry, I just came back from 14 hours of Rotterdam and zoo! Wink

I just thought it was funny that the word you mispelled was the one you took the time to S-P-E-L-L. ^_^ Wow, that is a lot of zoo.

ok *runs away because he's OT*

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #40 on: July 19, 2006, 05:24:23 pm
Conclusion of my opinion of this case: being anti-rippers doesn't allow you to break rule #1, even if you're a moderator or just very very serious about pixel art. Besides, a real bootcamp wouldn't have had that rule.

Helm wasn't being an ass. He was being curt. If you can't tell the difference between that, then I don't know what to tell you. You're fighting for a forum type Lick that is not what Pixelopolis is, or what Pixelation was. Accept this forum for what it is and either exist here or move on. The forum works, it builds skill and ushers many people (like myself) into professional pixel art jobs. It does that at an expense of fluff and constant praise. That's what this place is.

- Adam

Offline Pawige

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #41 on: July 19, 2006, 05:52:27 pm
And besides, how many of you would prefer this Helm?

Quote from: Helm
Umm, well, sweetie, wow, are you sure it took you four hours? It's still maybe a little bit messy for that long of a time. I think I'm seeing some stray pixels, and maybe a little weird noise dither. Both of those together sometimes make me think I'm seeing posterizing. I'm sure you aren't color reducing or anything, but I just though I would mention it, lol. Nice work!

Offline Lick

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #42 on: July 19, 2006, 06:00:46 pm
I'm fighting for respect among the forum members (higher ranked/new or not, serious/fun or not). I believe this does not disfunction any of the forums characteristics.

@ Pawige: I would. The response you typed (of course minus the exagerated parts) is pretty much what was needed to avoid this whole topic! Knowing how Helm normally responds, I would un-nice it a little bit, but still, it's going in the good direction to me.
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Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #43 on: July 19, 2006, 07:20:03 pm
Well you're certainly in the minority. And as has been posted, there are plenty of other forums with the nicities you wish existed here.

- Adam

Offline Katakus

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #44 on: July 19, 2006, 07:59:42 pm
This topic may be closed. I fear a flame war may start.
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Offline Helm

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #45 on: July 19, 2006, 11:41:17 pm
I'll give it a day more or two more, if anyone has anything to add. I don't think there's a temperature problem in here.

Offline Feron

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #46 on: July 20, 2006, 12:02:04 am
Wow - 46 posts on one topic about not much at all.  Get over it, you ripped, you got flamed, deal with it, move on.

@lick - u seem to be taking this a bit far.

Offline Katakus

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #47 on: July 20, 2006, 01:04:39 am
What is your definition of ripping? Just curious. I might even agree that I did rip, depending on your definition. Please state your definition. :)
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Offline flaber

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #48 on: July 20, 2006, 01:14:42 am
What is your definition of ripping? Just curious. I might even agree that I did rip, depending on your definition. Please state your definition. :)

dont poke the bear
people have already stated their opinions on this subject

you are now just prolonging this aimless conversation

Offline Feron

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #49 on: July 20, 2006, 01:33:24 am
Well either you color reduced the image, or badly traced over it.  If you didnt create the original piece - then its ripped in my book.

Offline CrumbBread

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #50 on: July 20, 2006, 02:19:54 am
I'm actually pleased that Lick has stuck to his guns. I know we needn't mollycoddle anybody, but this place at least moderately glorifies flat, clinical speech lacking compassionate undertones.

Anyway, QQ everybody and get back to the pixel mines =P

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #51 on: July 20, 2006, 06:21:12 am
What is your definition of ripping? Just curious. I might even agree that I did rip, depending on your definition. Please state your definition. :)

What a waste of our time.

- Adam

Offline Conzeit

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #52 on: July 20, 2006, 06:23:35 am
this place is really starting to freak me out.

.....almost as much as I do to myself...

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #53 on: July 20, 2006, 08:42:33 am
And besides, how many of you would prefer this Helm?
you're scaring me now...

@Helm:could've just told him, no?

@Katakus: if there's any part of the picture that isn't originally yours, save for the concept of i and the color palette...
if the lineart isn't yours, and you claimed it as yours, then that's ripping.
if someone would like to add/elaborate..?

and this hasn't been much of a flame war, imo. you don't see people insulting each other personally... ;D
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.

Offline Helm

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #54 on: July 20, 2006, 09:08:08 am
If when you start your work, you're altering anything that already exists, be it a google image reference photograph, a street fighter sprite, some sprite you found in a forum or even an old nes mario sprite, then what you're doing is ripping/editing.

If you don't mention that you've done this when you post your art for critique, then you're being deceptive.

If you're working on a drawn & scanned base (be it a color reduced base or a traced base) that is anyone's but yours, and you don't give credit, you're being deceptive. Even if it is yours and you've color reduced instead of straight pixelled, you better mention that as it WILL show up in your final product and trained eyes will catch it and inquire.

If at any time when you work on your piece you find yourself thinking 'hm, should I mention this? Bahh. they'll never find out' then chances are, you're doing something you shouldn't be.


It's interesting that any of these things have to be spelled out for people.

Offline Katakus

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #55 on: July 20, 2006, 06:03:08 pm
That's just what I thought your definitions would be, thanks. ;)

If your definition would have been, "Redrawing an artists drawing without giving credit to the original artist," then I would agree with you. That is exactly what I did, I did not show any references and I did not state who drew the original painting. Sorry.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 06:10:14 pm by Katakus »
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Offline Esker

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #56 on: July 20, 2006, 11:34:57 pm
This reminds of when CDI who blatently ripped work and claimed it as his own. Ironically he too said that everyone was rude to him and made a post very similar to this.

It seems you obviously have no idea what a rude forum is like, perhaps you should join the STEAM forums and slate Counterstrike, then you'd understand how diplomatic this forum really is.

This forum doesn't give me the impression it's here to simply praise people, you sound like you need to realise what this forum is about. You'll understand one day that producing work simply to praise a small selection of people just isn't the way to go to becoming a talented artist. Perhaps you should move away from copying artwork of others and try drawing something of your own, just don't expect everything you do to be praise worthy portfolio material first time round, it takes time.

Anyway I'm rambling, it's back to lurking for me.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 11:36:33 pm by Esker »

Offline Froli

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #57 on: July 21, 2006, 12:53:21 am
Can't believe someone will try to make a ripped work "his" and post it on Pixelation board. This guys are "pixel" artist/veterans some are professionals, and they take of their work to the extreme when it comes to details ;D. It would be very hard to fool them.

And for their attitude, yeah anyone who rips or steal someone's work deserves a thing or two.

Offline AdamTierney

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #58 on: July 21, 2006, 07:47:43 am
It's pretty obvious in the details. Look at the choppiness above her eyebrows. There's no reason to pixel a dotted line like that. It either comes from auto-color reduction, or tracing over color reduction. There are too many details in the pic that have no rationale behind them, but are very common in auto-color reduction. Anyway...

- Adam

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: I can't believe how rude this forum can be...

Reply #59 on: July 21, 2006, 09:45:50 am
my last post was aimed at Adam, not Helm, btw..^^;sorry...
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.