AuthorTopic: Fighting game character Help.  (Read 6651 times)

Offline Thanewdude07

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Fighting game character Help.

on: October 16, 2013, 08:24:03 pm
Well i got hired to make some sprites for mugen.

I am working on this character from a popular rpg called Disgaea the character's name is laharl (the version Im doing is D2 laharl)

So far I have made one simple animation for this character.





a few things i should point out are

1. Wind isn't really blowing its just his scarf is always moving.  In the game it has been hinted that the scarf is apart of his body.
so its pretty much always in motion.

2. I know my anatomy isn't really the best. But my employer wants him this way with the big anime eyes and stuff.


This character is from a isometric rpg styled game so pretty much all of his sprites and art is isometric.

So I'm doing this guy from scratch more or less.

My latest sprite is his fighting stance.



I suck at swords and armor really and i was hoping for some tips from you guys. Let me know what you all think!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:25:55 pm by Thanewdude07 »

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 08:00:51 pm
I'd work on the stance a little more, his belt is at a weird angle, also you should use a reference for the char, his scarf looks different than what you've drawn. On the sword: have him hold the sword at the hilt not the pommel and also work on that stance to make it more dynamic. An edit to clarify:

Offline Decroded

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 01:41:45 am
I found a good reference here - http://epii.info/anime/2008/SoCal-Spring/Disgaea%20-%20Laharl.jpg  :o

But no really, I don't know anything about the character but if this reference http://i.imgur.com/VwbwGoR.jpg is anything to go by then a few things I'll point out for the arms crossed stance:
 - Sole of boots should be a bit chunkier, less like slippers.
 - Boots should be squarer. The gold band will help portray this.
 - I like the smooth curves of your scarf. I think the back one could stay the same size and the front one could be bigger. From what I can see on google, the shape of the scarf is used to show his emotion. With some pulsing (heartbeat?) flowing animation, this would show he is both a fearless warrior and ready to battle. And you can use sharper edges when he's angry for example. Wolf's scarf shows that he himself is a disturbed individual :P
 - More contrast in the hair as per Wolf's edit, and probably some more saturation. You might want to test how your hair will hold up against various backgrounds rather than just choosing a background colour that works well against your sprite. The hair colours you have now are close to what is used in backgrounds so will probably need some form of outlining. You could also try highlighting the closer hair ribbon thing along the point where it folds and see how it looks.
 - I like the warm skin tone but you need darker outlines. Its really hard to read his face and mouth. You can cast more shadow there if you want.
 - Add the little blue tags on the bottom of his pants?
 - See how it looks with line for pocket and a seem down the leg of his pants?
 - Def go for the chunkier belt.

As far as overall scale, it helps to compare yours against a few other sprites from the game.

Offline Haze01

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 03:24:40 am
One of the things I noticed was that he looks a little too buff for the character.  His upper arms are too thick, his chest too wide, and his shoulders too broad.  I wondered if the character had changed or aged in D2, but, finding reference images from the game, I would say he hasn't.  Wolfenoctis' edit addresses these issues but also makes the character taller, which might be wrong for the style you are going for.  I have the feeling you are aiming for something close to the style of Street Fighter Alpha.

I had thought that the hair and the scarf around his neck might look better with better-defined colours or outlines and Wolf's edit does a very good job of that.  If you are going for something of a Street Fighter Alpha style, you might want something in-between your original and Wolf's edit regarding to the level of contrast used in shading and outlining the hair and scarf.

Another thing I initially wondered was whether or not his facial features could be more dramatic and expressive and I feel Wolf did a great job with that.

I like how Wolf pixeled the belt and belt-buckle.  It is much more readable and, at this larger size, is closer to the character reference.

The gloves, pants, and shoes in your sprite are all closer to the artwork for the character than what Wolf presented in his edit but I feel all of these could use work.  You've added little single-pixel dots on the gloves but I feel they don't really work to show the detail.  Note also that, when crossing your arms, the dominant hand gets tucked in under the opposite arm while the non-dominant hand rests atop the upper arm of the dominant hand; I feel this isn't shown in either your sprite or Wolf's edit.  The feet look oddly positioned to me and the shoes look small, like slippers, when I think they should be thicker, more boot-like, and more cartoony.  The pants are missing the interesting little tags from the character in the game.

An edit, thinning the arms, drawing out a hand, detailing the glove, reducing muscle definition in the chest and arm, thinning the legs, adding a detail to the pantleg, and detailing the shoes.


References found at:
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-25/dd2-laharl.html
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/disgaead2/sheet/53860/

Offline Thanewdude07

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 06:17:35 am
I'd work on the stance a little more, his belt is at a weird angle, also you should use a reference for the char, his scarf looks different than what you've drawn. On the sword: have him hold the sword at the hilt not the pommel and also work on that stance to make it more dynamic. An edit to clarify:


Thanks a bunch for your help! yeah I like your pose better I know my pose with his arms crossed could have been better I will try to make some changes to this tomorrow! ;D

One of the things I noticed was that he looks a little too buff for the character.  His upper arms are too thick, his chest too wide, and his shoulders too broad.  I wondered if the character had changed or aged in D2, but, finding reference images from the game, I would say he hasn't.  Wolfenoctis' edit addresses these issues but also makes the character taller, which might be wrong for the style you are going for.  I have the feeling you are aiming for something close to the style of Street Fighter Alpha.

I had thought that the hair and the scarf around his neck might look better with better-defined colours or outlines and Wolf's edit does a very good job of that.  If you are going for something of a Street Fighter Alpha style, you might want something in-between your original and Wolf's edit regarding to the level of contrast used in shading and outlining the hair and scarf.

Another thing I initially wondered was whether or not his facial features could be more dramatic and expressive and I feel Wolf did a great job with that.

I like how Wolf pixeled the belt and belt-buckle.  It is much more readable and, at this larger size, is closer to the character reference.

The gloves, pants, and shoes in your sprite are all closer to the artwork for the character than what Wolf presented in his edit but I feel all of these could use work.  You've added little single-pixel dots on the gloves but I feel they don't really work to show the detail.  Note also that, when crossing your arms, the dominant hand gets tucked in under the opposite arm while the non-dominant hand rests atop the upper arm of the dominant hand; I feel this isn't shown in either your sprite or Wolf's edit.  The feet look oddly positioned to me and the shoes look small, like slippers, when I think they should be thicker, more boot-like, and more cartoony.  The pants are missing the interesting little tags from the character in the game.

An edit, thinning the arms, drawing out a hand, detailing the glove, reducing muscle definition in the chest and arm, thinning the legs, adding a detail to the pantleg, and detailing the shoes.


References found at:
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-25/dd2-laharl.html
http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/disgaead2/sheet/53860/

Yeah you are right.. I did make him too buff. I was trying to size him up with other Capcom vs snk sized sprites and what not and so i did go bit crazy on that.

Everything what you said is true about him. I will fix these changes today and post up my progress. I defiantly see what you mean about the outline around the hair and better contrasting colors.

I do suck at boots as well so i will be using yours as a starting point for my fixes towards him...and i will make him less defined as well.

I did forget the little white things at the ends of his pants as well.. Thanks to you all for pointing those out. I will be making some fixes to this asap tomorrow before i get started on his standing animation.

My employer wants hims to breath in and raise his shoulders and arms. Then exhale do you have any idea of what references I should check out for this?



I found a good reference here - http://epii.info/anime/2008/SoCal-Spring/Disgaea%20-%20Laharl.jpg  :o

But no really, I don't know anything about the character but if this reference http://i.imgur.com/VwbwGoR.jpg is anything to go by then a few things I'll point out for the arms crossed stance:
 - Sole of boots should be a bit chunkier, less like slippers.
 - Boots should be squarer. The gold band will help portray this.
 - I like the smooth curves of your scarf. I think the back one could stay the same size and the front one could be bigger. From what I can see on google, the shape of the scarf is used to show his emotion. With some pulsing (heartbeat?) flowing animation, this would show he is both a fearless warrior and ready to battle. And you can use sharper edges when he's angry for example. Wolf's scarf shows that he himself is a disturbed individual :P
 - More contrast in the hair as per Wolf's edit, and probably some more saturation. You might want to test how your hair will hold up against various backgrounds rather than just choosing a background colour that works well against your sprite. The hair colours you have now are close to what is used in backgrounds so will probably need some form of outlining. You could also try highlighting the closer hair ribbon thing along the point where it folds and see how it looks.
 - I like the warm skin tone but you need darker outlines. Its really hard to read his face and mouth. You can cast more shadow there if you want.
 - Add the little blue tags on the bottom of his pants?
 - See how it looks with line for pocket and a seem down the leg of his pants?
 - Def go for the chunkier belt.

As far as overall scale, it helps to compare yours against a few other sprites from the game.

Nice reference lol. Thanks for your comments I will definitely try to improve on what you spoke of  :y:

Thanks again to all and I hope to show you progress soon :)

Offline Thanewdude07

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 08:42:14 pm
Wow This character is teaching me a lot of different things thats for sure. This character sheet is done without using any bases which is in the self a learning process for me but i have been doing much better this way. I just wanted to show how far this character has come in the past 2 months..



The reasons for so many changes are 2 things.

1. My employer himself wants all of these sprites to be perfect so he doesn't mind slow animation progress in exchange for Higher quality sprites.(By perfect I mean he wants them is way)

2. I really want to make him love these sprites so I will always ask is there something he is unhappy with. Cause a unhappy consumer is something i don't want at all.

So let me explain each stage of this process we are going through. (left to right)

1. Was the very first sprite did of this character he said he wanted a cvs sized laharl and i did my best to give a Cvs face and everything like that it worked for me. But Mr. L didn't say cvs face in that cvs like sized so this one need a better face closer to the game and art out there.

2.Ok Fixed the face and got ready for the animation

3.This one is for his laughing animation made some progress as you can see at the top of the first page.

4.Got started on his Fighting stance animation. From scratch and working it into his shape.

5.progress was made needed to add his sword and scarf.

6.Details added and went on the search for feedback. Mr. L also agreed i should do so to check for inconstancy.

7. Feedback accepted and added on for his improved stance with more details. After further feedback I was told what you guys said here.

8.After final feedback I made changed and fixed his legs and making the stance look more natural and Here we are!

Next up Stance animation then onward to the basics!

Cheers!

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 10:33:40 pm
You could push the proportions a lot more.





What is cvs?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 10:38:29 pm by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Ai

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 01:17:05 am
^
CVS

More seriously, it probably refers to Capcom Vs SNK series of games. (the art style here looks pretty much like SNK style to me)
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Thanewdude07

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 01:22:12 am
 :'(  Wow that edit brings a tear to my eye :'(

Thanks for the help that sprite you did is really great.

Welp I know now  I gotta really try to push that stylized version.

When I said Cvs I mean Capcom vs Snk the old game that came out in early 2000s

But yeah  Thanks for the edit and I am going to try to apply what you did to my next update  :yell:

Offline Decroded

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Re: Fighting game character Help.

Reply #9 on: October 30, 2013, 07:35:50 am
Yeah you should redo that sword pose its very unnatural and stiff.
Especially the way he's holding the sword is really unbalanced.