AuthorTopic: GR#156 - Gothic Dieselpunk - Gameart  (Read 55002 times)

Offline Stava

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #60 on: December 01, 2013, 02:22:09 pm
There were some things bugging me about the car, I made a edit since I don't think I'd be good at explaining it..

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #61 on: December 01, 2013, 04:22:54 pm
to me it seems like you have some pseudo-banding or something like that going on in some places. Most notably on the highlight. I'm not too sure how its happening though...

It's because of the damned angles.

Angles like these, and especially on prominently contrasted, thin objects -like the silver lines going all over the car- will inevitably give off the banding feeling. Trying to fix them can be time consuming and often futile, it can sometimes make someone reconsider the whole design, for appearance's sake.

The car does seem in need of polishing, so we may see it being fixed soon, perhaps?

This style is amazing.

I think Mr. Fahrenheit meant the highlight on the car's hood.

Yeah the angles and the hard contrasts, as well as the outlined style seems to cause some problems with banding. I can live with that, to a certain degree since it also shows that it's still pixel art, which is not bad, which is of course no excuse if there is a better approach to solve the problem. However I won't abandon certain angles.
But thinking about how to improve could is an interesting challenge.
I tried to get rid of the dark outlines at all unecessary spots and sharpened the AA here and there.
Maybe really minimal AA would be in general a good idea and just using more AA were I intentionally need it. I have to look at that in detail.

Made it a little darker, still using Greg's colors so no colors added, I think the current version is a little too bright and too yellowish:

Value changes are a really great idea and seem to work much better with the strong chiaroscuro used everywhere else.
I also applied this to other objects as well. 
However all your colors were "off", seems that you have the saving problem you already had earlier again.

There were some things bugging me about the car, I made a edit since I don't think I'd be good at explaining it..

I disagree with a lot of points, you destroyed the barrel-formed front of the car and made it really flat. You also destroyed the radiator mascot.
Nonetheless your edit gave me the idea to emphasize some parts with a gold color and overthinking some spots and the shading here and there.

For the car I changed the value, the shading, lots of AA and a bunch of details.
I edited the lantern and the boxes in terms of value.
I also created some bottom tiles and a park bench to enhance the scene a bit.

Scene (WIP2)


Graphics (WIP2)

"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Stava

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #62 on: December 01, 2013, 05:33:20 pm
sorry my edit had nothing to do with the design of the car, just the proportions, and perspective I think

my english is kinda bad so I can't really bother explaining what I wanted to change, maybe this picture explains what my intentions were..



and sorry for destroying it  :(
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 05:35:24 pm by Stava »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #63 on: December 01, 2013, 06:39:13 pm
I agree with the sloppiness of the windshield and the radiator grill top plane.
The difference in width howevever is caused by the triangle shape of the forms.

I think I can illustrate this clearer by brightening the front plane and changing the angle of the upper line slightly
The bumper is imo a question of taste, I am quite sure that the construction is right, however there is a hhigh chance that it "feels" wrong. Edited that a little bit.

first diagram uses the same colors for lines, as in your description.
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Stava

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #64 on: December 01, 2013, 07:10:34 pm
I understand the triangle form, but the thing is that the front is narrowing on one side in a different angle than on the other, while they start with same width, at the end the left side is at least 80% thinner than the right, so the very end of the car is looking almost side-view since you even removed the metal part showing on the left side.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #65 on: December 01, 2013, 07:48:00 pm
the angle for the roof stays the same over the whole length, it would work like a "flat roof".
In fact the form isn't a flat roof, the angle of the roof changes over the length - if you look at the sketchy frontview you can see that there you see a plane instead of a line.

Means that the angle has to be different that it's right.

Additionally the chrome in the middle of the car also has a blocky form and hides 1-2 pixels from the rear plane, which lets it appear even smaller. The dark green plane recedes faster than the bright green plane, but on their elongated axis they meet in the same "source" point.

In the second version of the car I tried to draw in those construction lines from the middle line and the shape lines of the bottom. But since the form is rather complex (round edged + roof like) and the resolution is too small to get it 100% exact I rather concentrated on having straight pixel lines which have the smallest deviation from the original line.



All I can say is that I constructed it and this construction is done 100% right for all major forms, but adjusted to clean pixel lines.
So means that you have to try to wrap your head around the problem why the angles of both planes are different if you don't get it, because it's drawn right.

I can't prevent all reading errors caused by feeling.
Does anyone else feel that the perspective of the (edited first) car in the diagram above looks odd?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 08:02:53 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #66 on: December 01, 2013, 08:40:03 pm
Quote
Does anyone else feel that the perspective of the (edited first) car in the diagram above looks odd?

I agree with Stava, it looks odd. Front part it's not in the perspective with the rest of the car, and it's very obvious. Also windshield have the strange perspective to.

You should reconsider Stavas edit.  :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 08:43:37 pm by HarveyDentMustDie »

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #67 on: December 01, 2013, 09:22:22 pm
If I won't reconsider stuff I most probably won't ask. As long as everyone makes his points clear, there are valid arguments to work from.
For me it's interesting to find out what works and what doesn't work and why. During the process I also made some decisions.



-changed the radiator mascot to a top down perspective (might have been the biggest issue)
-changed the upper line slightly, now it has even more deviation from an exact construction, but might feel better.
-worked on the overall windscreen forms. I think that the angle of the upper door line - outward and down - in the front might not have been the best solution for this perspective).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 09:28:25 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #68 on: December 01, 2013, 09:31:49 pm
To me it read like this.



I agree with Stava's point.

But I'll also add in that it might be the shading what is giving me such a reading. How can we tell the metal curves on the farther end from us?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 09:35:22 pm by Vagrant »

Offline tim

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya (Dieselpunk?)

Reply #69 on: December 01, 2013, 09:33:41 pm
I agree with the critic on the car.
It's pretty obvious if you check the left part.



Woops, nevermind, didn't saw you edit (tab opened too long, etc...)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 09:35:15 pm by tim »
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