AuthorTopic: GR#156 - Gothic Dieselpunk - Gameart  (Read 28717 times)

Offline AlcopopStar

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 07:10:49 am
Just wanted to pipe in and say the pose is looking a lot better! both in the old character and the new, great progression.

Offline Facet

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 06:22:12 pm
Yeah, looks great :), I am seeing more of the mentioned character traits; defensive/withdrawn, aloof/proud, in him now too.

I was assuming title/cut screen earlier, so all the other stuff makes more sense. Eyes could still do with some more experimentation maybe, I'm sorta seeing two pupils looking at extreme left & right; could make the other material more obvious? stronger colour, glowing etc.

Maybe a bit early yet with Creya (need mo' comic shadows) but the ponytail looks a bit 2D; I'd expect it to project more behind her, and her thighs look quite thin. Her outfit looks a bit basic/placeholdery yet? Could be fun adapting/subverting some more of that massive frilly Victorian stuff.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 10:18:37 pm
@Wolfenoctis:

yeah the cane is a nice addition, I also played around with that, but since the artwork also should resemble a character sprite and I don't know which movements that sprite has to do I want to keep both hands empty.

@AlcopopStar:
Yeah, I am also happier with it now =) it seams to work much better now.

@Âme:
Thanks for the encouraging words  :-[

@Facet:
Yeah the eyes are usually a really hard thing - or at least for me - I tried another version with the fake eye, but I am not sure if it works.
I also worked a bit on Creya, so feel free to add your thoughts - the thick pink lines were indeed placeholders, the rough shading everywhere was just to show how it might look.

newest version:

Gregory:
-changed the length of the rear arm
-changed the width of the boot brims
-worked a bit more on the face (eye, highlights)
-some smaller edits all over

Creya:
-changed the position of her hand next to the head
-resized the head
-worked on the hair
-worked on with shading and continued working out all parts.

Both characters are now quite far processed - Gregory only lacks the final layer of polish and I also think that creya just needs some more work on a few details and the final layer of polish - if there are flaws I already got blind to It'd be great if somebody could point them out.





I also played around with gregs mechanical arm, because I weren't happy with the position. Now as I look at the other versions I think the version I had is by far the best one.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 10:20:13 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline tim

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #23 on: September 28, 2013, 11:10:24 am
The pixel art is very good, but there is still some perspective issues & the art direction is rather poor I would say.

The female character especially, is such a sexist cliché : full pink, naked shoulders, cleavage, garter belt, with a pose that doesn't make any sense. Why the legs ? why the arm is up ? No wonder why feminists are fighting each day. And I'm really not the kind of person that support extrem feminism, but I think you're just displaying exactly what we, artists, shouldn't do these days.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 11:26:28 am by tim »
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Offline Carnivac

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #24 on: September 28, 2013, 11:33:24 am
No wonder why feminists are fighting each day. And I'm really not the kind of person that support extrem feminism,
Are feminists those women who think they speak for all women and don't like women that like to express and enjoy themselves?  I can tell you I've known many ladies who would actually quite like that design and have dressed similarly for various occasions.   An ex of mine was very into dyed hair and corsets.

Quote
but I think you're just displaying exactly what we, artists, shouldn't do these days.

Are there rules on art?  I thought art was an expression of what you like to do and not what other people tell you that you can or can't do.
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Offline tim

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #25 on: September 28, 2013, 12:03:25 pm
Don't tell me there are no other way to design female characters than sexy / kawaii.

We're not making art for the sake of art : we are an industry. We have some kind of responsibility in this world. And if we make what our brain want, without prior thoughts, without challenging ourselves, we are creating products with sexualized characters everywhere, because we prefer to draw naked, beautiful, standard people than less sexy ones. But what if instead of making characters sexy, we make characters interesting and original ? As I said, I think the female character design displayed here is not original, not interesting, and just plain wrong especially given the steampunk universe & the character background depicted.

I am french so I know quite a bit about Steampunk art styles, Jules Vernes, Art Deco, and all the related culture. So when I read this :

Quote
It should be dark, oppressive and the universe has some parallels to our worlds 1900.

I am trying to achieve a steampunk style with gothic elements, but I want to take distance from the generic fantasy and steampunk illustrations we all know.
So it's a special kind of steampunk (but more or less inspired by Jules Verne

And then I see this :



Sorry, but it does not compute at all. It's not dark, not oppressive, not steampunk, not gothic, it's generic, inspired by japanese pop culture, and has nothing to do with steampunk or Jules Verne's world at all.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:30:30 pm by tim »
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Offline AlcopopStar

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #26 on: September 28, 2013, 12:58:17 pm
@tim
Well at risk of derailing this thread...

As someone who considers them self a feminist I would defend the right of Cyangmou's design to exist. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the sexualization of characters, I think the issue stems from how overwhelmingly one-sided this sexualization tends to be and the shallowness of writing that causes sexualization to become purely reductional objectification.

I suppose you have to look at it like this;
There is nothing inherently wrong with a character that identifies with and displays traditional femininity (pink, frills, ect)
Nor is there anything inherently wrong with a character that displaying a degree of sexuality, so long as sexuality is not there sole defining feature. (as this leads to objectification)

Now you could argue that Cyangmou's female design is objectified, and maybe that is a fair enough argument to make, but this does make a specific presumption about a shallowness of character and intent that I don't think, given the art on display, you can rightly make at this point. Now if you were talking about Rob Liefeld's art I wouldn't second guess you. I suppose I would say that objectification as a crime of bad writing as much as it is one of lazy art.

Honestly I would encourage Cyangmou to explore all his characters from a point of depth and respect. And if that exploration leads to a feminine, sexualized character? cool, so long as he is open to other character types, bodies and personalities as well.

Lastly, I think a lot of artists, myself included, tend to express a degree of sexuality in the art they create, I don't think this is a bad thing but it is something you need be conscious of and keep in check as it will not always be appropriate, especially in terms of character design.

@Carnivac
please don't mischaracterize feminists.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:02:54 pm by AlcopopStar »

Offline wolfenoctis

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #27 on: September 28, 2013, 01:00:04 pm
Don't tell me there are no other way to design female characters than sexy / kawaii. We're not making art for the sake of art : we are an industry. We have some kind of responsibility in this world.

WRONG! We are artists, we express ourselves through this digital medium called pixel art.

Why can't you just be honest and say that you, personally don't like the artstyle? Because you know thats just your opinion and no one has to take it seriously. So you imply an injustice has been committed and everyone who disagrees with you is obviously some misogonyst bigot out to demean women.

Now we are subjected to petty and infantile faux outrage that someone dared to draw a pretty girl in a colorful outfit, and that this has somehow devalued and objectified women everywhere. Oh the melodrama. I'm so sick of the femo-fascist thought police barging in everywhere and belowing their pompous and pretentious opinion as some kind of moral absolute.

There is nothing 'wrong' with drawing an idealised woman or man. Thats all it is: idealization and not 'objectification' as so many foolishly believe. So you want mundane looking people who are 'original' ( whatever that is supposed to mean). If I look at art, i want to see the extraordinary, the fantastic, the surreal. If I wanted to see plain looking people I'd go outside in the real world, there are bilions of them.

Offline AlcopopStar

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #28 on: September 28, 2013, 01:22:26 pm
I really hope that we can retire terms like "femo-facist thought police"... Tim didn't even identify as a feminist. ugh. And I think Tim did have some points, albeit made in an  combative way, but I do think it's important to challenge the negative trends of our age.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:46:17 pm by AlcopopStar »

Offline BlackTar in a Jar

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Re: Sir Gregory & Creya

Reply #29 on: September 28, 2013, 01:35:42 pm
I strongly agree with Wolfenoctis' comment. As for Cyangmou's design, I think it fits in perfectly with a steampunk/gothic feel, and the stance is very feminine, I really can't see anything wrong with it.