AuthorTopic: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island  (Read 24671 times)

Offline Wallie988

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(WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

on: September 11, 2013, 11:56:33 pm
Hey everyone! I've recently started with my big flower island chain project (this is just one of the petal islands):
Newest version:
(I can't remove the background on my computer)
I'm hoping to fix the issues before it gets too difficult.
At this point in time, it's not looking very good - critique and advice would really be appreciated! >^.^<
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 03:04:34 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline tim

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 01:07:45 pm
Actually the biggest issue is your shading. Montains, water, trunks, leaves, are all of different shapes in reality. Therefore they can't receive light in the same way. You have to "sculpt" how the light is hitting those surfaces. Take a look at Arne's tutorial here : http://androidarts.com/pixtut/pixelart.htm

Take a look at your image :



Try to sculpt instead of simply doing smooth gradients to fill shapes :





Don't do dithering now. First sculpt and paint everything. Dithering is a finishing touch, don't wate your time doing it now.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 01:09:50 pm by tim »
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Offline r1k

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 07:29:39 pm
heres your image without the background



I just used the magic wand tool in photoshop to select all the pixels of colors you used to draw with, then pasted it into a new document.

I would try working more painterly.  Like, first rough out the whole island.  For example, it seems wierd that you drew all the trees without first filling the island in a solid color.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 09:30:45 pm
tim and r1k,
Thanks for the advice! I'm probably going to practice by redoing the trees and cave first... :3
*attempts to do some not so smooth shapes*
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 03:08:48 am by Wallie988 »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #4 on: September 13, 2013, 03:00:20 am

What do you all think of this? I know it's still terrible, but the texture looks a bit less smooth.
And would anyone happen to know how to draw large scale forests? My last island was VERY unporportionate - the trees were the same size as the mountain/stone structure. >^.^<
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 06:53:48 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Sohei

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 01:45:14 pm
I gave up on making maps, because I don't understand the logic behind landscape forming. It is not an easy thing to do, and I see mistakes in your picture that I used to make often.  A river does not appear from nowhere. It's headspring starts in a mountains, or in a lake, ok is formed by lots of streams, so there are definitely lot's of moist and green around. Water flows from high gound to low.
And this is just a tiny example.
So, before starting actual drawing, I'd suggest to think all ideas over and pack them using logic.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 12:19:04 pm
Um, maybe it would work if I made the river come out from that pond that's forming around the mountain? >^.^<

Offline Zintendo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 12:40:47 pm
I think the problem with your rocks is the same I had with my sword; you got excited with your progress and posted it here before you could really finish it.  Those rocks look great so far! Just keep the bum in the seat until you distribute one or two more shades... Maybe that's not it though.  Putting more thought into it, your rocks may be suffering from the repeated pattern of, what looks like a boxing glove.  Unless those are million year old water rocks, Rocks tend to be randomly shat out by volcanoes.  You either have a subconscience interest in Fighting, or butts, hahaha(it's probably just me) !  Finding rocks with lines running down the middle would be like finding 4 leaf clovers... Anyways, expirment with shading misshapen trapezoids, penta deca octagons, instead of lines for rocks.  I hope that makes sense.

Back in my youth, I was obsessive with symmetry.  It showed in a number of ways: I would level my skills evenly in RPG's, Lego creations were symmetrical.  It's eased a bit with age, but it's still there.


I understand where your coming from, shading the trees evenly from left to right.   Unfortunately, only certain things in nature are naturally, uniformly shaded.


Tims reply is spot on when it comes to shading.  If you're still having trouble, try looking at how games in the past.did their trees.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:14:14 pm by Zintendo »

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 06:54:50 pm


I had a little fun at work and had a few ideas so I did a little rough scribbling, I'm not sure how realistic you wanted things or if you wanted them more representative but I tossed a couple ideas in there if you wanted to go a bit more realistic and take in a few of the ideas others tossed in. I made the water flow a little less smooth and a bit more random, the mountains less like big rocks, and the trees more like a forest (though you might have wanted them to be giant trees), and added a little beach like area. I didn't want to go too much further because I didn't know what you had planned for the other land.

Don't be afraid to give your major elements a little more form instead of cutting them right off, let them feel their way into the land like real objects would. Also remember that water gets a lot of it's darker colors by depth especially from afar.
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Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 09:36:22 pm
@Zintendo
Thanks! - I'll try to fix the boxing glove thingy! But I think it's going to take a while for me to figure out that not so smooth rock shading technique. xP

@Wanyo
O.o I love it! However, I do feel that I was very unclear about something... I'm actually looking for one of those huge stone cliff thingyings (not an actual mountain. >^.^<

Something like this but with a waterfall maybe?:

http://blog.remnantbride.com/wp-content/uploads/garden_of_gods.jpg
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 11:43:11 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 12:57:03 am
@wanyo nice edit  :y:

@wallie998 Your not going to find rocks that stick up from the ground then have a waterfall coming off them.
what I suggest is stop drawing the detail for now and lets block in the contours of the land first and rough colour of where the water cliffs and trees are.
I feel like attempting an edit because Ive never done this but no time right now.
What im thinking would make sense is that this petal broke off from the main land. Theres a volcano (can be dormant an overgrown if u want) in the centre with ridges running out, then they were snapped off by some event.
Now u have cliffs on the mainland side, and on the petal side tthat would be the high area with a forest and some small peak popping out the top.
water flows from there through trees to a cliff where the land suddenly drops off and there is ur waterfall with pool and caves there. Surrounding this is more trees and coming from there is only one river following the contour of the land and out to the sea rather than making several random blue lines.
Is the island populated? If so, by whom? What is the theme of the world?

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 01:08:30 am
@decroded
Thanks!
I'll have to think about that, because I'm trying to tweak things to make them right. However, I do like the idea of the mountain and then the drop off theme...
 
Is there any other way to do the water than by using a mountain? The island is supposed to be a bit on the smaller side, so the river could be a little stream... >^.^<
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:12:35 am by Wallie988 »

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 11:18:23 am
This is along the lines of what I was imagining without using any reference (except being based on Wanyo's edit).

Tried to add some naturalistic variations of the island shape in response to contours of the land.
The main ridge is probably a bit TOO prominent and should perhaps taper off more at the end (adding more forest would probably take care of this anyway).
Still don't know where all the water for the waterfall is coming from but lets pretend there's a natural spring there  ::)
No idea how to add forest on these slopes without losing the shape.
Perhaps by adding a series of cliffs or something I dunno.


You don't have to go for this style though.
You might like to go for something more representational as Wanyo suggests which would be simpler as you don't need to put in as much thought and sculpt the land like this.
And it can still look fine to do that.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 11:36:06 am by Decroded »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 12:11:40 pm
@Decroded
:D That's really awesome! I'm probably going to go with the slope and cave idea, but I'll try to push the slopes towards the back and squeeze in the trees around the cliff. :3

Also, how is everyone drawing these so fast? It takes me an hour just to do a tree... O.o

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 12:31:20 pm
@Decroded shaping the land like that was totally where I was going next with that! (I may have run out of free time at work) Let's just pretend that the water is coming from a magical underground source pumped up through the island by some sort of giant beast.  ;D

@Wallie I like the garden of the gods mountain idea, you can definitely find some awesome shapes out of those sort of mountains. If you're working off the ones you currently have use your reference and cut some hard edges and more points out. Don't worry about it taking you quite a bit of time, it does for all of us but the more you do it the faster you get. Also stick around here and you learn tricks to creating wholesale shapes before trying to tackle huge detailed things and you start thinking a bit differently about how to pull everything together. I've (<3 Decroded) learned so much and I feel like I keep getting better at this as will you! Just keep at it, don't get discouraged by everyone's work, speed, and talent then you'll get better with every piece! :lol:
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Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 12:59:03 pm
@Wanyo Okay! Thanks! I'll try to figure something out with the leaf shaping (that was just too cool). :3
Now to figure out how to shrink the slopes...

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 01:34:06 pm
@Decroded
how is everyone drawing these so fast?
As Wanyo says, the more you do stuff the better you'll get.
Just keep pushing.
Try some different stuff too like some sprites.

It took me a while to do that since I never really tried properly.
Don't tell me boss I was doing it (like most of my edits :o)
Here's a progress in case your wondering the steps I took.
I think I'll follow the same steps next time I do something like this too.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #17 on: September 19, 2013, 12:45:37 pm
@decroded
Wow, that helps a lot! *working on it* >^.^<

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #18 on: September 20, 2013, 03:05:12 am
@decroded and @wanyo

How about this?:



It's pretty much still a rough sketch, but I wanted to correct shaping issues first... what do you all think? >^.^<

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #19 on: September 20, 2013, 08:29:13 am
You gotta paint over the paper background with water its really distracking  :huh:

Very similar layout but if you like it then why not.
Not sure what advice to give just keep going and if you get problems then try blocking in the most basic planes of light and shadow, work with a couple more shades of green including a subtle highlight along the ridge (don't use that colour on the sides of the ridge), and make sure this basic form reads correctly before sculpting it further with detail.


If you don't want to be realistic, you could instead rough in a bunch of cylndrical rock platforms/cliff things of different heights and sizes overlapping each other and add a waterfall cascading down the structure.
I'm probably overthinking by worrying about where the water is coming from when it could just be a natural spring at the top of the rocks.  :-[

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #20 on: September 20, 2013, 01:02:42 pm
We're definitely overthinking it but maybe if it's a natural spring there should be a bit more of a pool attached to to the stream at the top, or maybe make the stream end hidden so it's implied?

Don't forget to widen your river a bit at the end. I was googling a few river mouth pictures and I found some cool references:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Klamath_River_mouth_aerial_view.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XnHHipZv1gk/T3gyWnNVR6I/AAAAAAAAAwA/6JXHoKp44ZA/s1600/river_Mouth+3.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_erApd0WcEIk/TUVtyNjekQI/AAAAAAAAABs/iwgY_Oe1hxg/s1600/AQCA090%255B1%255D.jpg

Also makes me think as you get in a little more you could add some better beach area around the mouth and maybe even a little sandbar. Another idea could be to add a little hill depth around the river and really make it stand out.

Look at this reference how the mountains kinda pull into the river and define it:
http://www.flyinn.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Kaipo-River-Mouth.-North-of-Mildord-Sound-West-Coast.-Bob-and-June.-Feb-09.jpg

That makes me think, don't forget to use lots references of real life areas, that kind of thing always gets me really excited and launches me a ton of new ideas (as you see above)  :-X
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Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #21 on: September 20, 2013, 01:52:34 pm
@wanyo
Thanks! I'll check those out! And yes, I think we'll have to find a way to include some king of hot spring - :D

Also, you you think it would be possible to add some sort of cave in the cliff?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 01:58:30 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #22 on: September 22, 2013, 05:17:35 pm
@ wanyo and @decroded

I made some minor changes:  fixed up the shading, made the river mouth a bit wider, and added a tiny pool at the top. :3

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #23 on: September 23, 2013, 01:28:40 am
I think you need less less highlights on sides of the ridge and more of that darker green (not the darkest one) to fill the area.
Then try to blend the top a little so its not such sharp lines.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #24 on: September 23, 2013, 11:59:54 am
@decroded
Hmm, are you talking about the main slopes, or the one that sticks out to the side? >^.^<

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #25 on: September 24, 2013, 09:05:12 am
The ridges down the sides. I feel they dont deserve highlights.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #26 on: September 24, 2013, 12:03:51 pm
Oh! Ok, I'm working on it...

Edit:
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 12:14:44 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 03:21:13 pm
Super quick edit on the cave/awesome shroom trees:


I gave the cool shroom trees a little more character with a bit of roots and variation so they didn't look like sticks in the ground, brought up the contrast a bit so I could move the pixels around and make them feel more rounded. I also added a bit more light over the cave entrance to make it look like it was in the rock more instead of just on top of it (I didn't do a very good job I don't think). Just a couple little things that stood out to me, keep up the good work it's really coming along!
<3

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #28 on: September 24, 2013, 10:47:55 pm
@Wanyo
>^.^< Thanks for the advice - I'm going to go spruce up the cave and trees real quick...



I need to put some new kind of foliage at the bottom of the main slopes...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 03:15:33 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #29 on: September 30, 2013, 12:29:19 pm
Okey dokey, sorry this took such a long time...

I added some flower patches and giant mushrooms (yes, they're supposed to be bigger than the trees).

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #30 on: September 30, 2013, 01:06:14 pm
Haha its starting to look like a magical wonderland.
try swapping the middle and right mushrooms and shift the positions to make it all a bit more random.
currently it looks more like someone planted them in a row (mushroom orchid?).
When are u going to paint over that nasty paper in the background??
Takes like 10 seconds to do if u use magic wand to select ur beach and grass then invert the selection and paint with large brush...

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #31 on: September 30, 2013, 03:03:05 pm
Decroded beat me to talking about the positioning on the large mushrooms!  :lol:

Something bothers me about the flower patches, they end up looking more like sprinkles, maybe they need to have a little more color variety or get intertwined into the land formations more, or perhaps be less uniformly spaced. I can't toss an edit right now but take a look at a couple of these references if it gives you an idea of what I mean:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5342/9503984856_d19df4017d_c.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/5650398.jpg
<3

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #32 on: October 01, 2013, 02:00:54 am
@Wanyo
Ok, I tried fixing the flowers. :3
@Decroded
Yay! It actually looks like a magical island! I tried fixing the mushrooms, and as for the background, it'll probably be staying until I'm done with the whole island. xP

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #33 on: October 01, 2013, 08:25:08 am
Flowers were bothering me too had no time to comment.
I think you need to thin out and rough up the edges of the patches so it looks more more natural, or add some dirt and colour arrangement if its a planted garden.
have u considered putting the mushrooms in the middle of the flowers? Dunno if it will look any good but worth trying.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 12:41:04 pm
@decroded
How about this?:

It's a bit more purple now...

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #35 on: October 03, 2013, 12:35:04 am
Are you going to fix the lined paper background?
Or is that part of your theme?
It just looks bad right now and really distracting from the island.

You need to spend some time cleaning up the pixels of the flowers and I think the ridges of your slopes are still too "literal" (is that right) instead of suggested, so that takes some time to mess around with removing highlights and blending the shadows in a bit more.

With the flowers - when you've got that much detail (lots of per-pixel colour variations), combined with high saturation and high colour contrast with surrounding grass, it starts the dominate the whole image.
So try bringing down the colour contrast (NOT overall image contrast, I mean hue and saturation) of the flowers themselves so they're not so hardcore.

Mushrooms could use some help.
They're a bit blobby, especially at the base.
I think the ground needs shadow around the mushrooms and the stalks need stronger contrast and shadow being cast from the top of mushroom onto the stalks.

I don't like how the cave is twisted to face directly at the camera.
Just changing a few pixels will make it follow the natural angle of the cliff (bring the left side up a bit and right down).

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #36 on: October 03, 2013, 02:05:39 am
@decroded
Ok, I'll fix the background now since I have to move on to the rest of the islands for at least a while (if not, this is probably going to take a year).
I'll fix some of the things though...
Is this what you meant by that?:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 12:38:01 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #37 on: October 04, 2013, 01:13:49 pm
@decroded
YES! Found a way to remove the background... which one's better?

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #38 on: October 11, 2013, 12:52:12 pm
Ok, sorry, this took a while, but here's the other "island" that I've been working on...


Does everything look right so far? There's supposed to be a river and waterfall flowing down from the top cliff, but I have to find a way to add some kind of city around the river. :3

Offline FRAWG

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #39 on: October 12, 2013, 01:50:05 am
I would, on this new island, play with more natural, flowing shapes rather than geometric cylinders.

It's always helpful to do a little sketchy stuff first.
And I know, there's about a million lighting and structure problems in this edit, I just wanted to show a little bit of an idea on how the newest image can be developed.
I just felt that this towering structure deserved buildings to emulate the overall height of their foundation. It also helped to remove a bit of the stair-stepped geometric look by creating an almost triangular structure. That and some basic shading (with a bit of faulty lighting, my bad) to emphasize some areas.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #40 on: October 12, 2013, 02:40:33 am
@FRAWG
Thanks! How about this?

I'm kind of looking for a more "cliffy" structure, but I disfigured the cylinders a bit. :3
Also, I'm kind of looking for a way to add a 3rd waterfall at the top - is there a way to do this?

Offline Decroded

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #41 on: October 12, 2013, 05:33:07 am
Is this the centre of the flower?
It has a a weird tilt down at the front of the bottom which looks like all the water would just fall straight off.
And you should try offsetting the waterfall of each layer left and right a bit different to each other instead of the obvious symmetrical vertical line running down the centre.

I would increase your canvas and redraw this sketchily in the same image as the other island to keep consistency and keep it all in perspective.
At the same time I think you should block in the rough shapes of the other petals if you are planning to do them later.
Being able to see all the elements in relation to each other is really going to help you plan out ideas for where everything goes.
And working around the image to build it up rather than spending forever detailing one particular part is going to make everything look more consistent.
Later you can still choose to crop certain parts of the larger image if you want to display separately.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2013, 05:42:25 am by Decroded »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #42 on: October 12, 2013, 01:38:06 pm
@decroded
Here it is:

Yeah, I know there's a really weird line separating the center from the top petal; that's just so I won't mix up the two. I'll get rid of it soon. :3

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #43 on: October 12, 2013, 01:49:38 pm
This is not drawn in perspective at all. Maybe you should learn about perspective, and decide from witch perspective you want to view this islands.
http://sashas.deviantart.com/art/The-Perspective-Tutorial-94166651  Example tutorial. :)

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #44 on: October 12, 2013, 11:24:53 pm
@HarveyDentMustDie
Thank, I figured there'd be some structural issues, but really, as tong as the center and the bottom left petal are fine, the rest can be fixed easily...

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #45 on: October 14, 2013, 01:46:02 am
@HarveyDentMustDie
Ok, how's this:

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #46 on: October 14, 2013, 09:05:11 am
I was thinking more something like this.


There still something weird about center island, and top left beach in finished island.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #47 on: October 14, 2013, 01:11:38 pm
@HarveyDentMustDie
How about this?

Offline Wanyo

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #48 on: October 14, 2013, 02:47:18 pm
Couple things to demonstrate why it's laying out weird:


This is a quick (super quick, my lines are awful) idea of the lines each of your shapes are implying as far as perspective goes. See how some of the shapes just don't adhere to the same line of sight? Your center island is definitely a point of contention here when it comes to perspective because it's sitting more flat instead of at the angle that the first petal sits.


(stars, because it's in spaaaace!  :lol:)
Another way to look at it is to shrink it down and toss it on a sphere because technically that's what you're trying to imply for your land mass, I used HarvyDentMustDie's version to contrast and give you an idea of how it adheres to the perspective.

I hope this helps to illustrate the idea a little better, sorry some of it is a bit off!
<3

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #49 on: October 14, 2013, 09:27:10 pm
@Wanyo
Thanks, that helps! But I might need to keep the top petal a tiny bit longer so it's easier to click once I turn the whole thing into an image map. :3
How's this?:
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 01:35:26 am by Wallie988 »

Offline Eiyeron

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #50 on: October 15, 2013, 05:23:54 am
Now, it's like your island is placed on a sheet. I can't make you a drawing, but imagine a sheet, and get your eyesight near the sheet, the.perspective looks alike this way.

That make me think a lot of SNES's Mode 7 If you know what's tat.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #51 on: October 15, 2013, 11:30:34 am
@Eiyeron
Yeah, I need to find a way to fix that, but I can't meddle with the top petal too much due to it's purpose... but is the overall thing better than before?

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #52 on: October 15, 2013, 11:39:47 am
Yes, it seems better, but you should try editing the left  petal. Its perspective is still off the archipel's. It should take a similar perspective than the right one.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #53 on: October 16, 2013, 01:12:44 am
@Eiyeron
Would this be fine?:

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #54 on: October 16, 2013, 05:48:34 am
In my humble opinion, it's like the left leaf is closer to the top one than the right is and it looks a bit off, but the perspective looks correct, now, if you want to use this archpiel in a flat ocean, not a sphere one.
Try to lower a little bit the left petal, and it should be better.
If you want to use it on a planet, you should try to edit your archipel to looking like HarveyDentMustDie's version.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #55 on: October 16, 2013, 11:45:40 am
@Eiyeron
That's another problem - I can't decide which one, but I think I might have to do this one flat. XP

But in the case of flatness:
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:00:56 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #56 on: October 16, 2013, 01:14:34 pm
Added another waterfall and some cities and tried to fix the weird center tilt - everything looking right? :3

Offline Parkerbaby

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #57 on: October 16, 2013, 02:09:54 pm
The furthest leaf's placement is inconsistent with the rest of the design. It appears to be 3x or 4x as far away from the base of the mountain as the rest of the leaves. To be consistent it would be in there so deep, it'd be just about completely obscured by the mountain itself.

Offline Mr. Fahrenheit

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #58 on: October 16, 2013, 08:53:51 pm
I feel like the mountain itself is a bit out of perspective and you should see it from slightly more above then right now.

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #59 on: October 16, 2013, 10:37:42 pm
Any better?:

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #60 on: October 17, 2013, 11:28:39 pm
Made another edit (tried to fix errors in center structure):

Offline Facet

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #61 on: October 19, 2013, 07:34:03 pm
In the future, it would help a lot to stop guessing perspective and actually sketch a guide!

Top is a plan view (from above, no perspective) with the centres noted, you could do this in a couple of minutes pencil & paper and simply look at it from different angles. Bottom I've skewed the plan into perspective and used the centre points to extrude form crudely (technically those ellipses would thin out a little going up).

That should be enough to make a decent sketch freehand; of course it's hard to use the guidelines effectively if you haven't practised this stuff: it's important!

« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 08:00:06 pm by Facet »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #62 on: October 19, 2013, 10:02:07 pm
@Facet
Thank you! That really helps! I tried fixing up the existing image as best I could...
V1:
V2:

Would any of these work?

Offline Facet

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #63 on: October 19, 2013, 11:42:57 pm
I hope so, but really it's up to you to read up and apply that stuff to everything else. All the little things; mushrooms, building etc. should conform to the same viewpoint as the landmass (atm they're pretty much in profile). Can you sketch guidelines for them?

Try keeping guides on a layer on top of the final with opacity or multiply blending so you stay consistent.

To match my guides you'd have to broaden the central ellipse a bit (as though looking from further above):

« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 11:45:31 pm by Facet »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #64 on: October 20, 2013, 03:07:54 am
@Facet
would these guidelines work? :3

Or maybe this one:

I'm still a bit unsure, especially on the buildings... wouldn't they pretty much look like 2D squares?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 03:53:46 am by Wallie988 »

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #65 on: October 20, 2013, 10:34:32 am
@Facet These are not pentagram islands, some variation in shape and position should exist.

@Wallie988 You should start everything from scratch. The problem begun when you created first island separately from the others, and you don't understand the perspective, so you can't create others to match the first one. Now you are trying to force everything to fit, without changing the first island.
You should start again, but this time you should draw all islands at the same time and find good perspective and position of leaf islands. You can maybe rotate them so the central island don't cover the top one. Think about purpose of this drawing and what perspective will fit the best.
I gave you some perspective tutorials, you should use them, and found more if it's necessary. Think, try, if you fail, try again.

Offline Facet

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #66 on: October 20, 2013, 04:07:58 pm
Harvey:
Not my intention, however regularity/repetition of form enhances perception and understanding of perspective.

would these guidelines work? :3
Of course not, you've just doodled something that looks superficially similar to the guide I already made with no attempt to work anything out!
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 04:17:31 pm by Facet »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #67 on: October 20, 2013, 06:16:52 pm
@Facet
Well, I'm still debating with myself whether to do what you did or if this works. I'm just stuck on the two side petals... I can't seem to figure out how they're supposed to look, but I made some changes which you might not notice:

Yeah, the guide's kind of shifted to the right.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 06:27:15 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Facet

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #68 on: October 20, 2013, 08:52:15 pm
How did you work out the placement of those lines? How do they relate to the objects (mushrooms, buildings) you want to place?

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #69 on: October 20, 2013, 09:40:52 pm
@Facet
Well, really I just tried looking at photos of island from a similar perspective to see if everything made sense... but now that I think about it, I might have made some mistakes: the bottom right petal might need to be turned a bit more to the side. It's supposed to look as though you were on a plane or something flying overhead/towards.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 10:37:01 pm by Wallie988 »

Offline Facet

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #70 on: October 21, 2013, 01:46:36 am
What use are the guides if you guess them too? What are they guiding along?

Looking at photos is no help at all to the geometry of your island's footprint.

perspective = converging parallels. Where are your parallels?

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #71 on: October 21, 2013, 03:47:53 am
@Facet

I have to make the top petal a bit shorter.

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #72 on: October 21, 2013, 11:42:18 pm
Ok, workings aside, what you have seems consistent except those centre lines are a way off (they should be pointing towards the middle of the circle)

Can you add additional 3D forms into the scene; like a cylinder and dome for a mushroom, a cuboid for a skyscraper? 

« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 11:44:54 pm by Facet »

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #73 on: October 22, 2013, 02:13:51 am
@Facet

Ok, but what exactly do you mean by making more 3D shapes?

Offline Altourus

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #74 on: October 22, 2013, 04:28:48 am
Think they mean this

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #75 on: October 22, 2013, 12:33:43 pm
@Altourus
Thanks! :3
@Facet

This?

Offline HarveyDentMustDie

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #76 on: October 22, 2013, 12:45:39 pm
This is starting to be hilarious. Maybe you should ask Facet to draw everything instead of you.  :n:

You are not trying to learn and understand perspective, you just copy whatever people say. It's not the point to create strictly symmetric star, Facet tried to explain perspective to you using simple example, and you took it to literally.

Best solution for you now is to draw your island top down in 2D and use Perspective modification in Photoshop to put it in the perspective.

Offline Decroded

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #77 on: October 22, 2013, 02:38:44 pm
it is important to learn perspective but i dont know that point perspective is needed here.
hard to say since most of us aren't mind readers and i dont think OP explained very well but i imagined this as some sort of scrolling map, in which case a consistent overhead angle would suit.
something like this:


another thing REALLY bothering me is the far too obvious vertical line of symmetry formed by the waterfalls.
it looks silly and unnatural, as well as doing no favors to your forms (doesn't help sculpt/describe your shapes).
you should look for ways to vary things so they still balance but look more natural.
here's a quick example:


as mentioned, don't take these edits too literally and just copy what is done as our edits are not THE way to draw it.
rather try to learn/ask WHY and HOW we come to these conclusions.

i also don't like the cylinders of your center island.
i think they are too regular, square-edged/geometrical, symmetrical, chunky, and boring.
you should try starting by sketching a bunch of overlaying cylinders that of different diameter and heights, then rough them up into more natural shapes, smooth some edges, keep some sharp cliffs etc.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 02:58:29 pm by Decroded »

Offline Facet

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #78 on: October 22, 2013, 06:55:36 pm
I don't disagree with the idea that orthographic projection would work ok, but for over a week in this thread basic perspective is what has been discussed and misunderstood.

Whichever way the projection is handled the issue of construction and consistency is still there.

but what exactly do you mean by making more 3D shapes?
I'm not sure how to rephrase any clearer? I mean beyond those I've already drawn, using the existing guidelines (specifically the ellipse, which will near enough consistent throughout) to figure out how things like the mushrooms would look from the same angle instead of drawing them without depth, as from the side. The difference might seem subtle but it's a fundamentally important way of thinking about space. 

Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #79 on: October 23, 2013, 02:32:32 am
Fixed the mushrooms...

Offline Decroded

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #80 on: October 24, 2013, 11:00:57 am
I don't disagree with the idea that orthographic projection would work ok, but for over a week in this thread basic perspective is what has been discussed and misunderstood.

Whichever way the projection is handled the issue of construction and consistency is still there.

but what exactly do you mean by making more 3D shapes?
I'm not sure how to rephrase any clearer? I mean beyond those I've already drawn, using the existing guidelines (specifically the ellipse, which will near enough consistent throughout) to figure out how things like the mushrooms would look from the same angle instead of drawing them without depth, as from the side. The difference might seem subtle but it's a fundamentally important way of thinking about space.
Agreed.
I'm trying to be patient as OP seems young but he needs to stop adding details until the underlying structural issues are addressed.
The middle island looks horrible - it should be destroyed immediately and drawn again properly from the ground up.
On top of other important issues we've mentioned, what is really bothering me is the shape of the cylinders as highlighted below - the way they curve out at the top but that the base doesn't even have the right curve to it - basically sloppy drawing.
I was hoping a redraw would have fixed this by now but its still burning my eyes   :'(


Offline Wallie988

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Re: (WIP) Newbie Trying To Pixel An Island

Reply #81 on: October 24, 2013, 12:11:18 pm
@decroded
You know what? I'm going to start from scratch, but this time, it'll just be a map since it's what would be most suitable...
There'll just be too many errors unless I completely redo everything completed in the past month (particularly the completed island). :3
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 12:13:12 pm by Wallie988 »