AuthorTopic: 2D-RPG Development Observations  (Read 7682 times)

Offline tcaud

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Re: 2D-RPG Development Observations

Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 09:41:01 pm
I'd shorten the list to four by merging the lead and the writer. In the cases of Valkyrie Profile and the (early) Final Fantasys, the writer was also producer and director. Any person who tries to direct an RPG without being able to write, is gonna butcher their project. It's a guarantee. Making a great RPG is a quest in itself, and if you're not embarking on a quest, your RPG is gonna suck in comparison to those who do make it their quest. And I'd rather play RPGs made with soul, than a testament to one man's ego.

You want to make a standard that is formulaic and well-structured and easy, but it doesn't work that way. All the great franchises of our time have that common thread: the director was also the original writer of the script. The cool dudes are gonna balk at this fact, because they want it to be all about ego and their cozy relationships with the biz people, but the fact of the matter is that they can't write an RPG worth shit. If you don't have the strength of will to create a prototype of your vision all by your own effort, the fulfillment of your vision probably won't be worth my sight.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 09:46:35 pm by tcaud »

Offline Corinthian Baby

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Re: 2D-RPG Development Observations

Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 08:24:12 pm
Stumbled upon this article, which is a gold mine, and echoes some of Cyangmou's points:
http://indiegames.com/2013/11/opinion_what_not_to_do_when_st.html

Also, I've been following Seyken: Crystal Kingdom for awhile, which has some gorgeous art by Cyangmou/Vierbit, so I was disappointed to find this:
http://indiestatik.com/2013/11/07/seyken-crystal-kingdom/

@Cyangmou:
Is there on update on this situation, or maybe there are some postmortem lessons to be learned here from dissecting the situation? If it's a personal matter you don't wish to talk about, that's fine, I just hate to see that art go to waste, especially as a reference/study.

Offline Cyangmou

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Re: 2D-RPG Development Observations

Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 09:45:39 pm
Gawd you are late, yeah everybody knows by now that I am not afraid of sending C&D's.
however I never had a problem so far with persons or companies I worked with as long as I got paid.

http://cyangmou.deviantart.com/journal/For-all-who-wonders-what-happened-with-S-CK-409378500
Contains pretty much all I have to say.

or to make it short:
Quote
Azaphrael:
There are way too many good artists being ripped off by people who don't seem to understand the simple concepts of our economy. When you hire someone to do work for you, you gotta pay for said work. On time and in full.

[developer said]“He claims I owe him money. Which is true..."

Nuff said.

situation got solved from the lawyers, there were no "negotiations".
My goal was to get a contract for the money and the rev-share, the developer owes me, he just said that this isn't reasonable.
The only "negotiations" from the developer side was to shut down the game and drag out all into publicity, after that there happened no talking within the deadline.
You can find the first answer the developer gave me in my devart journal, posted at November 5th, which was exactly 1 day after the legally set deadline.


What I learned:

-doing contracts for all the stuff, esp. money and how to share a cake right from the beginning,
-if somebody don't wants to sign contracts abandon him, because if his real intention is to do what's stated in the contract he will sign it

-let you pay in time and don't give a shit about promises, even if the amount of money is ludicrous. Promises aren't save.
-don't be afraid to bring in your lawyers if somebody intends to scam you

-don't work on a profit share situation without contracts
-don't do any work without a contract, the governing law and court of law mentioned in those contracts should be that of your living place or your country
-do your homework regarding to copyright, right of use etc. if you are your own boss and you are creating stuff that should be clear anyways.

-don't give in if you don't get paid
-adjust what you should get paid always to your level of skill and your market value, even if it's a long time project and your skill level and speed changes dramatically during that project+, otherwise your work won't have any value, despite quality
-don't mention to anyone that you are working next to school or next to university on something, otherwise your work might not be of any worth for your client, despite quality

-Don't be afraid to keep up your right, even if a client who don't paid you threatens you that he will destroy you in the web, just because he has 12.000 E-Mail adresses. The law always stands above shitstorms.
-Don't give a shit about your health and never work 12 hours every day for 2 years straight, just to make a living and chase a dream at the same time
-Know your rights, use your rights


Edit: The other article you posted is great as well. It contians a lot of experiences I made for myself so far.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:12:57 pm by Cyangmou »
"Because the beauty of the human body is that it hasn't a single muscle which doesn't serve its purpose; that there's not a line wasted; that every detail of it fits one idea, the idea of a man and the life of a man."

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Offline Corinthian Baby

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Re: 2D-RPG Development Observations

Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 02:04:12 am
Yeah contracts are pretty important. Creative property lawyers make careers out of this stuff. Unfortunate what went down, it is an interesting case study, thanks for sharing about it.

And for the record I don't think any less of you as an artist. If Prebyter wasn't paying based on what you guys agreed on, then I understand your decision and it does serve as an example not to undervalue your worth and take your craft seriously. Respect.

Offline Redshrike

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Re: 2D-RPG Development Observations

Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 07:16:15 am
As a funny personal note, I joined an RPG project some 8-odd years ago which violated just about every principal of good game-development sense (and general common sense).
It was an MMORPG (that's almost enough right there).
Nobody on the team had made or properly worked on a game before (insane).
There was no clear plan for how the game was to progress or emerge.
Everyone on the team was a young and enthusiastic amateur, all of whom had come together from the fanbase of a different MMO.
The game was in an unusual orthographic perspective.
The major advantage (from my perspective) was that there were a lot of artists with skills in that odd perspective who were willing to work for free.  The down side was that 'skills' was a relative term and applied more to some than others (definitely not to me at the time, for instance).
Oddly enough, some 8 years later, with some turbulence and staff turnover (not due to drama, just the fact that in 8 years a lot of things change in people's lives) we've actually entered closed beta with a working product, with generally polished graphics in a unified style and a well-mapped world.  Who knows how things will go in the future, but frankly, with all that was stacked against it I think it's a miracle we've come this far (and a testament to the long-lived patience and subtle direction of our project lead.)
So I'd say that despite all the odds it's possible for a project to pull through--but don't expect it to happen quickly if at all.  And when you go on a game development journey that long, you'll find that you've changed quite a bit along the way as well.  I was in middle school when this project started; I'm now near to graduating from college.  It will inevitably mean something different to you than it did at the beginning.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 04:23:57 pm by Redshrike »