Fashion dollie (added another)

[Wayuki]

Heya! Long time no post. ^_^'

I've been a bit low on inspiration lately, so here's just a small thingie to let you know I'm still alive. 



PS: although it's a doll, please note that it's made completely from scratch by me, including the base body. 

EDIT: made another one ->

[Silver]

I like it!
i have no idea about pixels dolls but this one is one of the best i'v seen in while!
I don't really have useful cirtis 

[Wayuki]

Glad you like it! 

I just made a little guy to go with the girl. 

[Helm]

Usual problems with 'blanket shading'. It's not really that it is, but it's so soft it's not very far from it. The little person looks nothing like a man. They don't have any outstanding faults, maybe you need to try something outside your comfort area, if you're looking to get better.

[Wayuki]

I guess the dolling community's tendency to draw really effeminate guys has rubbed off on me, ehehe. ^_^'
Though, it's supposed to be more of a "pretty boy" type than a manly man. And I wanted to make him fit with the girl, which is in an insanely, disgustingly cute style to start with. Yes, poor excuses, I know. *hides*

I'm working on an entirely different and much larger piece right now, actually... but progress is going really slow on that. I'm also working on some NPA as well... man, I must get out of the habit of starting 10 different projects at the same time. o_O'

[Helm]

without going too much out of style, it's a matter of hardening the facial characteristics, making eyes smaller but everything else bigger, more shoulders, more edges, less... less gloss. etc. I don't know anything about the dolling community and it's practices, but drawing men that look like men (and boys that look like boys, not girls) is a great skill to have.

[Wayuki]

Thanks for the edit, Helm! That does look a lot more manly.

Although, I have to say his expression seems a bit tired and bored to me. I also think the line on the chin is a bit extreme, it almost looks like a scar. Although the shoulders you have there work well with the head, I think they're too big for the lower body.

Trying to find a happy medium:

Old -> New


Here's what the uncovered base bodies look like. I don't think the guy's shoulders need to be even broader, IMHO it works well with the style. Most guys don't look like Duke Nukem, anyway. ^_^'

[Helm]

Yeah that works pretty well, although still a bit too girly for me. It's difficult to say how the shoulders should be exactly, and the neck, especially, because of the head to body ratio deformation. I am not versed in this sort of thing, seems to me the bases are pretty good.

[Wayuki]

Thanks again for your help, I do like him a lot better now. 

Next time I make a male doll, I'll take a completely different route. I happened to have finished a muscle man base last week, so that will come in handy. 

[ptoing]

Adding a handlebar mustache would help to add more manliness

[Skull]

Adding a handlebar mustache would help to add more manliness

And some chest hair.
Very impressive skin tones.

[Helm]

Don't mention it.

I happened to have finished a muscle man base last week

Real people usually dwell somewhere in between the skinny and the muscly, in fact most real people are slightly overweight and all that. Do you want to make naturalist pixel dolls? Probably not. But just saying. I think you should branch out and draw stuff that isn't dolls. They can still be depictions of people, but maybe stylized differently or not at all? I think the format doesn't leave much space for aesthetic interest, regardless of pixel-arty goodness.

[Wayuki]

The base I mentioned also happens to be quite a departure from my usual style, with much less colors and less gloss: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/wayuki-template-brawn02.gif

Also, that large unfinished project I was talking about a few posts earlier? Definitely a departure from my regular style. I didn't really want to post it until it was in a more finished (read: less naked) state , but here ya go anyway: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/wayuki/wayuki-angel_wip02.gif

It's true that, as far as pixeling goes, I've pretty much jumped on the style-bandwagon of the dolling community, and it would be good to try different things. In fact, I HAVE been trying different things, as you can see above. Also, I don't feel I'm limiting myself as an artist. Pixeling is just one of the many things I do. I can do digital illustrations. I can model, texture and animate 3d models. I've designed and made clothes and actual real-life dolls.

I have to say... Am I really less original than the others here, because my pixel art so far has been cute, colorful, bigeyed and bigheaded?

My style sticks out like a sore thumb in this community, because nobody else does anything similar and "cute" isn't well liked around here. But this community, like all other art communities, has style-bandwagons all of it's own. Just how many people here limit themselves to teal, brown, gray and slate color schemes? Random dither style? Make practically monochrome pieces and call it unifying? Not saying that it's bad... but have they ever tried to make a cute, colorful, happy pixel scene? Just saying.

I think everybody would benefit from stepping out of the box, not just me. 

Sorry if this opinion makes me unpopular around here, but it's been weighing down my heart for a while.

[Ryumaru]

the VERY large unfished project you have there, is very amazing. 

[Helm]

It's true that, as far as pixeling goes, I've pretty much jumped on the style-bandwagon of the dolling community, and it would be good to try different things. In fact, I HAVE been trying different things, as you can see above. Also, I don't feel I'm limiting myself as an artist. Pixeling is just one of the many things I do. I can do digital illustrations. I can model, texture and animate 3d models. I've designed and made clothes and actual real-life dolls.

That's nice to know. I wasn't talking about being limited as an artist, but about being limited as a pixel artist. It's great to know you're doing all these other things, and I'm sure they're enriching experiences. I was, and still am only concerned, with your pixel art and how it can be bettered, as such is the scope of this place. None of this is a personal attack.

I have to say... Am I really less original than the others here, because my pixel art so far has been cute, colorful, bigeyed and bigheaded?

Originality was never in my scope of critique, technical merit mostly, was. In your case you're very good, but I don't see you becoming any better until you break out -at least momentarily- from the uniform-lit, static dress-up quasi-anime sprite deal. Just to try different things, stylized lighting, mechanical design, a tileset, a foresty scene, something. You'll get a lot better once you get to texture things you don't normally do, in lightining conditions you don't normally do, generally doing things you might not normally do. You misunderstood me about the originality thing, and I get the feeling it was a thing you wanted to get off your chest regardless. I am interested to see you step out of your comfort zone, not make a mad dash towards originality, whatever that may be. My personal stance on originality is that when one does something they understand very well and feel very close to them, and they still take RISKS, it is infused with the things that make them what they are, and is therefore, idiosyncratic and personal and new (in that every different person is new) even if it still is a doll or a sprite for a game or whatnot. I don't find originality to be a matter of form.

My style sticks out like a sore thumb in this community, because nobody else does anything similar and "cute" isn't well liked around here.

We've had people who did predominantly dolls before, I don't think the community's treated them any different or worse.

But this community, like all other art communities, has style-bandwagons all of it's own. Just how many people here limit themselves to teal, brown, gray and slate color schemes? Random dither style? Make practically monochrome pieces and call it unifying? Not saying that it's bad... but have they ever tried to make a cute, colorful, happy pixel scene? Just saying.

I'm sure we would all benefit from drawing dolls or cute happy pixel scenes at some point. I hope we find the time and put the effort into doing this. Tell you what, as a show of good faith I'll do a doll later tonight and a clothing set

Sorry if this opinion makes me unpopular around here, but it's been weighing down my heart for a while.

I don't think this opinion will make you unpopular here. Relax.

[Ryumaru]

there are many of us here that do very cute, happy pictures.
kenneth fejer is a great example, unlike most of us his stuff is pouring with wonderful saturation and cartoon imagery.

i cant really say i like the style of most dolls in the first place, but yours show skill that i usually do not see in other dolls.

[Conzeit]

I for one am very glad that we have someone with your inspirations here.

see, here everyone tends to think a picture has to be either expressive and cartoony, or realistic and drab.

you stand somewhere inbetween, your pictures are still very expresive while they attempt to have a realistic shading. you dont really fall for the demoscene craze, and I bet dont really care about game styles.

you dont think in terms of KOF style, SF3, CVS, or SFA style and I think that's really great, we need to get away from such structures.

you know, a while ago I used to welcome very profusely anyone who didnt have the usual gameart backgrounds and came into the board, I guess the reason I didnt do it with you is because I had already seen several Dollers coming in and I'm almost used to it.

But you are a very level minded person and I am glad you are around here, looking at all of our art from a diferent place, I love the fact you think what we do is unnecesarily drab *thumbs up*

please post more critique! I'd love to see the kind of forward thinking you are showing us all in this thread spread all over the board, telling us to not be such pesimist monochromers


C&C


I was just comparing my photo with the guy...he is unnecesarily unexpressive and still looks more effeminate than me, not because I have tougher face features but because some of the details on him make him look like he has a secret fondness for makeup.

Helm's edit does have a boring expression, but that's because he made the guy squint. There's no reason to make him more unexpressive, I dont inhability to express yourself has anything to do with manlyness.

I think the best thing you could do is focusing on manly things that actually add expression

take some smoothness out of his face, subtly mark his cheekbones (maybe a shadow below them)

Take the exagerated shadow out of the surroundings of the eyelashes (how it's strongest at the part light would hit most directly makes it look like eyeshadow) and move it towards his eyebrows (make them a shade darker) thick expressive eyebrows are a very expressive manly feature.

I've been considering wether the pure white specular on his eye is bad or not, because it is usually a symbol of emotional vulnerability very much asociated with women, in model shootings they usually put these strange ring shaped lights just to really make those white speculars on the eyes unrealistically bright and eye catching to make them look femenine, but on the other hand it's not wrong for a guy to look like he has lagrimal glands, just something for you to chew on.

the dark pixel on the contour of the lower lip might be a bit much, a little speculars like what you have there is fine so they look naturally lively and wet but they shouldnt look so much like they're always in kissing position.

[Wayuki]

Sorry for ranting, guys. ^_^'
I did get the feeling that in the pixel art community, there's some negativity towards dollers in general... to the point where I felt I wasn't quite being taken seriously because of my dolling background, as if I was somehow less of an artist. But, maybe I've been reading in between the lines too much.

Either way, there was a lot of pent up frustration coming out all at once, unfairly aimed at Helm, who is in fact one of the most open-minded, helpful and supportive people here. The truth is that Helm's posts are an important reason I keep coming back.

So again, I'm sorry, and thanks for putting up with me and supporting me. 

Now back to the little guy... the main idea was to make a series of overly cute, fashionable dolls. For a guy who is big into fashion, I don't think "vain and effeminate with an arrogant little pout" is completely inappropriate. 
It was pretty much intended here. But, I do intend on drawing other types in the future.

PS: Johnny Depp looks good in eyeliner.  *Runs and hides*

@ Helm: I can't wait to see what you come up with. 

[Pawige]

[Wayuki]

LOL @ Pawige. I honestly don't think my guy looks THAT creepy, though.

[flaber]

Originality was never in my scope of critique, technical merit mostly, was. In your case you're very good, but I don't see you becoming any better until you break out -at least momentarily- from the uniform-lit, static dress-up quasi-anime sprite deal. Just to try different things, stylized lighting, mechanical design, a tileset, a foresty scene, something. You'll get a lot better once you get to texture things you don't normally do, in lightining conditions you don't normally do, generally doing things you might not normally do.

I know that that comment can be abit of a hard one to take.. hard to make use of, and almost stab at, it may seem. but do seriously consider it. I recieved a very similar comment - that all my pics i made were same easy style and were all too similar. in order to get anybetter i had to drop that. took me awhile to accept it, and now i do see it too. I have no reached a much further level in my capabilities than what my older style was.
So what i guess im trying to say is.. yes i understand you like using dolls and such, but if you want to become better you should try new, harder things. Things out of the norm that will push your skills. Right now its not all that challenging at all, its the same style, same techniques, similar outputs. Its becoming more grunt work than actual pixeling (I can relate). But Helm is right, that once you start out on new things, new techniques, it will improve you overall. If you then wish to return to the dolls after this, you will still notice a change in how you colour dolls.