AuthorTopic: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res  (Read 7097 times)

Offline Cellusious

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Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

on: August 22, 2013, 08:28:40 pm
Hi, been stalking these forums for a while and finally decided to join. (hi :>)

I'd love advice on how to take low-res > not-so-low-res

Etc, this is very low res, and i'd love to bring it bigger but i can't seem to make it work.


Here's my portfolio with a few of my pieces if needed, http://cellusious.com/

Cheers!
- Olav

Offline r1k

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 08:39:34 pm
well the best thing to do would be to post an attempt youve done so we can tell you how to improve it.  With a larger image, you dont need to worry about the pixels right away.  So start by just taking a larger brush and sketching it out/blocking out the shapes.  Do that until you have everything roughly how you want it then go into the pixeling.
Sometimes people will blow up their small image, then sketch the higher res version on top in a new layer over it.  If you do this though, remember you dont have to be totally faithful to the placement of things in the low res sprite (in fact you shouldnt be alot of the time).

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 08:59:47 pm









I tried to do high res here then abandoned it and just copied and pasted the stuff around to get textures and abstraction.


These are all failed trials at upping the size, which either makes them look just plain wrong or noisy when i try to not make them look flat.
I'm no fan of outlines and try to avoid that at all cost.
Using brushes + the tablonitor often result in very surreal stuff because of weak lineflow rather than actually getting what i want.

Cheers!
- Olav

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 03:42:38 am
Hello Cellusious.
Welcome to the forums.
Checked out your gallery.
Very cool stuff, I like it a lot.

I am a bit confused as to what you are asking for in this thread.

Do you want to scale up this sprite?


Or are you looking for pixel art theory in general?
Be more specific and we can more easily help.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 07:42:49 am
i want to be able to do pixel art 2x or 3x that size without looking bad, Not just that sprite, but in general. Edit looks great, i want to be able to do stuff like that.

Edit:
Another failure
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 05:50:37 pm by Cellusious »

Offline coffee

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #5 on: August 23, 2013, 08:26:57 pm
Quote
Edit looks great, i want to be able to do stuff like that.

Well PP's edit is not actually a scale up. He did scale it up but then he took away most of the scaled pixels and replaced them with normal sized ones.
I'm not sure but, I don't really know if there is a special way to do your art so it would look better scaled. The examples you posted looks really interesting even though you pasted some things, in this
case it even looks good, kind of abstract like From Dust (http://oyster.ignimgs.com/ve3d/images/07/44/74472_ProjectDust-02.jpg)

I usually don't do it in a special way than what I usually do even when I know it might be scaled to fit a certain resolution. I guess it's just a matter of good basic technique since any weird thing going on or something like it will be noticed a lot easier when it's scaled.

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 08:43:32 pm
Not look better scaled, do art at the same size as the edit; which looks good.
I don't want my low res to look better scaled up that' seems pointless.

This is rather low res, and therefore took around 2 minutes to pixel and animate.


if i could do the same things, just at a higher res for more detail and space for aa.

These are low res AA'ed to hell.


Offline Facet

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 09:00:33 pm
I think the problem might be that it's just harder to hide some of the technical issues/ambiguities that you might usually get away with without the forced shape abstraction of low resolution or the texture obfuscation of your high res stuff (some absolutely lovely textures btw!).

My advice would be to force yourself to work with minimal textures/stylisation for a while to better root out technical problems; foremost being form/lighting imo. I get the feeling that you don't know exactly what to do with the extra space of these larger pixels without all the texture?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 09:07:13 pm by Facet »

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 09:08:16 pm
Thanks! :)
Yeah, put in another way; cheating by working at lower res/hiding details in *cleverly* put noise.

I tried to do these, any way to make them show their form better?
These are still what i consider low-res but it's towards the right direction.


I would also (instead) love feedback and critique on the animation over;
how to enlarge it, improve it, etc. Animation/sprite anyhow.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 04:14:53 am
If you have not already, go here and read the Ramblethread.

It is a longish read and quite technical, but I am sure it will make some things clearer to you.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline coffee

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #10 on: August 24, 2013, 10:24:52 am
Having a high pixelcount/pixelresolution in a very small sprite like that, is not a good thing in my opinion. It's like you said, you mainly get weird noise and often bad clusters.

Quote
I tried to do these, any way to make them show their form better?
First off you lack some basic things, like the outline is broken at some points. Colours could be more dramatic and have a higher contrast. too much small spots that could form larger clusters instead.
Improving some of these things will help you show their form better.

There is also no point in A.Aing small sprites like these, it just makes the form less easier to read.

Quick edit:

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 02:48:35 pm
Quote
I would also (instead) love feedback and critique on the animation over
Some quick thoughts:

« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 02:54:22 pm by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline tim

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 04:01:36 pm
Hi Cellusious. Welcome here.
I follow you since a long time on Twitter and I am the one who told you to come here, because you were asking for critics and improvement and you often seem stuck. I'll try to help you and show you what can be done with your sprites. You have some great potential, but you need to work the basics - color theory, composition, lighting, scaling, dithering, etc...
Founder of Odd Tales
Art Director - Game Director - Game designer - Motion designer

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 06:13:18 pm
@coffee those honestly look much worse.
@PixelPiledriver more frames does the charm

I couldn't find a way to delete this topic but feel free to, my questions have been answered :)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 06:25:20 pm by Cellusious »

Offline coffee

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 09:21:54 am
Quote
because you were asking for critics and improvement and you often seem stuck

Might be stuck because you think your art is already the best?

Quote
cheating by working at lower res/hiding details in *cleverly* put noise.
Cheating is bad, noise is not clever, it's also bad, if you actually read what I wrote to you you might understand it better. Clever clusters are good, noise is something you want to get rid off.
Having a lot of pixels in weird places where it does more bad than good, does not make it high resolution.

Quote
@coffee those honestly look much worse.

Explain why? You can't expect to get better if you can't take in what others say and use it in a way that improves your art. I'm not saying you have to go for the exact same style or anything, I was pointing out the lack of some basic things that makes your sprites look weird and unprofessional. If you use the critics to your advatange, then you will improve.
Don't expect to get any more feedback or progress with the attitude you've got right now.

/coffee
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 09:33:49 am by coffee »

Offline Crow

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 10:22:01 am
I couldn't find a way to delete this topic but feel free to, my questions have been answered :)

We don't delete threads here.
Discord: Ennea#9999

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 11:17:42 am
Quote
@PixelPiledriver more frames does the charm
Actually I've only added one more frame to this.



I mostly kept the gummy feeling of him rather than fixing volume issues as I thought it gave him some good character.
What I worked on was the spacing of each element and creating variation in the amount of motion.
You had much of him moving at the same time and relatively the same distance.
Overlapping the amount of change as certain parts hold, move, and only slightly change helps keep the animation going and give the viewer something to attach to visually between transitions.

Here's an overlay with mine in white and yours in black:
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline tim

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 11:23:29 am
Quote
because you were asking for critics and improvement and you often seem stuck

Might be stuck because you think your art is already the best?

Yes he actually has some strong ego and doesn't accept positive criticism yet. He's also thinking his flaws actually are "his style", but as we all know, when someone thinks like that, it's clearly just a lack of experience. Especially when I often see he's "frustrated" by his own limits. It's not "style". There is ALWAYS room for improvement, even after 50 years of experience. But Cellusious is one of the most productive guy I've seen, he draws hundred & hundred of pixel art - he just need to slow down, step back a little and take a look at how to improve. Anyway, Cellusious, please stay here a little longer and try to learn and understand the work from all the great people here.
Founder of Odd Tales
Art Director - Game Director - Game designer - Motion designer

Offline Cellusious

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 01:39:15 pm
@Crow oh ok, thanks anyhow, :)
leaving the forum so i'll not read any potential replies.  :)

Offline coffee

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #19 on: August 28, 2013, 01:56:11 pm
I don't want to be mean to people or stop them in their creativity. However, I just got the feeling recently that there are a lot of these kind of attitudes going about and I think it's sad.
I can't see the great enthusiam to learn in people anymore, or at least they are very few. I think it's a major problem everywhere, not just in the art section. People want everything to go so fast
these days, including learning. Of course you can be eager in the beginning, I were too. But at some point you need to understand that you are not the "best" and if I can I would rather say that out loud when I see it and save that person a lot of bad experiences.

Eventually you will get to the goal you want and the praise comes with it.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 01:58:57 pm by coffee »

Offline Parkerbaby

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 07:07:37 pm
I think often experience helps people to get a more realistic image of themselves.

For me, for instance, when I was 13-17 I felt like I was a great artist and would even call myself an 'artist.' But with age comes experience, and as you get better you learn that there is even farther to go. Though you become better than you've ever been, your vision of yourself might be the worst its ever been, but realistic for once.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Need help going from low-res to not-so-low-res

Reply #21 on: September 12, 2013, 12:13:31 am
Hi! I've been stalking you a while on twitter as @conzeit =) nice to see you here.

Honestly man, I've been one to shun the outlines too and I think it's not really in your best interest to do that. if the only way you can think of making a good high res image is a bunch of texture from brushes it's because you're not confident of your drawing ability

Just make some drawings in hi res and dont use texture brushes. Use different sizes if you want...but really, no need to be afraid of outlines. Great things have been made with lines

look at Moebius http://theairtightgarage.tumblr.com/

or David Johnson http://davidajohnsonart.tumblr.com/ obviously not as good as moebius but his particular style has a sort of gestuality to it that I never thought I'd see in outlines without thick n thin

I might crit on specifical stuff later but that is all for now =)