AuthorTopic: -Reworking; job to be reposted soon-  (Read 3075 times)

Offline prosscct

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-Reworking; job to be reposted soon-

on: June 03, 2013, 09:30:44 pm
-changing terms of project; will repost soon-
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 08:53:27 pm by prosscct »

Offline rikfuzz

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Can you put up one of the original artists sprites?  It's a little hard to imagine a 'retro' sprite at such a large resolution (640x480).

Offline YellowLime

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Hell, 640x480... Wasn't that a legitimate screen resolution a decade ago? :lol:

Offline Ymedron

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Based on a prompt, sounds like a handy way to get free to use image resources. :U
Also makes me curious who the artist is, if they are so well-known and if it's imperative to copy their style really well.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline DaLk

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somewhat like rikfuzz said, "640x480" + "detailled" + "retro" don't compute. but as you come  with a very specific price per sprite, i assume you gave it some though first.

So, did you mean x8 pixels ?

else, i doubt anyone would do 80+ quadruple full-screen (for the 90's era) detailed pixel art for that sum :)

Offline YellowLime

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Ymedron makes two very good points.

Since there are always many artists looking for a job, the applications usually are plentiful.
I can see the concern of grabbing the "on-prompt" sprites and making a run for it, but the final quality of the art would be pretty inconsistent (even if you told the different artists to "adhere" to a specific art-style), and "conned" artists would (rightly so) make a fuzz about it. So even if the contractor got to keep the sprites, there'd be a lot of bad rep.

About the well-known artist, I'd also like to know, since it's assumed his art will be superior than that of whoever gets the job. :hehe:

Offline Ymedron

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Well, from what I know, folks might make you write an agreement where you give away copyright to the picture you send to them as a prompt. It's more worrisome in the illustrator business, I hear. :o!
But caution is best. I don't want to kill others' potential jobs either. <:U

Edit: Also I can't think of many legit reasons for a company to want a sample when they should rather check the artist's portfolio. If the artist is a hoax, it'll be found out when they send in the first draft.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 07:02:58 pm by Ymedron »
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline prosscct

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The sample art would remain in possession of the artist unless the artist was contracted to do the entire project.  It is merely to assess capability.  I have updated the prompt for clarity--we did not mean for each sprite to be precisely 640x480.  Rather, we want the art to be "at home" in that resolution, if that makes sense.  An average character would be about 215x215 based on the reference images we were using from Street Fighter 3. 

As you can probably tell, our grasp of the terminology is preliminary, so bear with us. 

We used this article to obtain our pricing structure:

http://2dwillneverdie.com/blog/how-much-do-sprites-cost/

We went with an average of the "high end" prices per sprite.  (Article lists high end price for 500 sprites at 7000-20,000; 7k + 20k = 27k/2 = $13,500/500 = $27/sprite.  We will gladly take some input from people as to whether or not that's a fair price, but from our offers that we have taken from some other potential candidates, we have determined this to be a fair, if not higher than usual, bounty.  However, it's entirely possible that we are not conversant enough with the actual process of producing good quality sprites to know what will go into this, so if we need an education in this respect, have at it.  We know the toy and illustration side, but the digital art is something new to us--we are only casually conversant in sprite art as gamers and fans.

We do not want to reveal any existing art at this time to protect the secrecy of the project.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 09:43:14 pm by prosscct »

Offline Cyangmou

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sounds like you are only pricing for keys. Key frames take by far longer than inbetween frames of animations, because they are usually the real work.

I highly doubt any highly experienced pixel artist would do work for 15$/h. The knowledge level an artist needs to capture the anatomy and animate chars like in street fighter III is rather high.
Even if you don't need animations, but you need different poses the anatomical knowledge is still a must-have for the artist and 220x220 is also really high resolution for any kind of pixel art (110x110 is still high resolution).

Capcom had back then a few of the really best artists and the game still looks great today.

Your article has salary charges for hobbyists and for animations with key and inbetweens for characters based on simple edits.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php

http://www.freelancegraphicdesigner.info/freelance-graphic-design-hourly-rates.php
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 11:07:38 pm by Cyangmou »
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Offline rikfuzz

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215x215 is still pretty large (SF3 was about 130? though huge variations of course).

I really appreciate the honesty with the sum, but I still find the actual work load confusing, is it 86 characters with 8 frames each?  (688 sprites + fx + bgs?) I'm sure it's not right, but I'm having a little trouble understanding the brief.

Also personally I don't like doing spec work, especially as it's proposed here, though I'm sure it's been successful in other cases.

If I were looking for artists for this project I'd gather interested artists' folios or example work and contact suitable artists privately with some example artwork (NDA if necessary) before people are likely wasting their time trying to pitch for a style-matching gig where we can't even see the style to be matched (which is my main concern tbh). I'd prefer to contact artists in very small batches too (one or two at a time if possible), likely to get less rushed examples this way, and create fewer let-downs. That could potentially take a little longer though of course, but I think it's best for everyone, including yourself. (You'll definitely lose some options doing it otherwise - I imagine the really high standard artists are hesitant to do spec work outside of specifically invited art tests etc).

Offline ||||

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Seems fairly reasonable though pixel art is a specialist's trade. I'd say about 20 dollars an hour is more attractive. I think it's normal to want a sample.

That's a lot of sprites needed.
Are these going to be printed on cardboard? Also, just a question, I'm not applying; just curious.. If you liked an applicant's sample and abilities would you hire them even if they've never worked professionally?

Edit: update.. As Cyangmou pointed out.. That really is high res (215x215) and 90+ is a ton of work.
 

Offline prosscct

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Re: [PAID - $2300] +/- 90 Sprites in Street Fighter Style

Reply #11 on: June 04, 2013, 11:44:32 pm
Thank you all, this is very informative.  It appears that our numbers may be off here, fairly significantly, so let me update the prompt one more time to clarify.  I also changed the size specs: we made a mistake on our end and had put the sprite at 2x, so we were actually looking for something in the 110x110 range. 

Like I said, we are as new as they get to hiring for something like this and we may not have had all the information necessary to proceed.

Somebody asked if they would be on cardboard: currently, it looks like 320gsm cardstock.

Here's a better breakdown of the workload for one character, with character names removed:

There will be six characters with a breakdown like this (one of those six characters will require a single sprite for five different "sub-characters", but four of those five "sub-characters" will be copies of our artist's existing illustrations and one will be a pallet and hair swap ala Ken to Ryu):

1.   The character should be punching with his right fist.
2.   The character should be punching with his right fist forcefully, showing moderate strain on his face.
3.   The character should be delivering a wild hook punch
4.   The character should be kicking with his right leg.
5.   The character should be kicking with his right leg forcefully, showing moderate strain on his face.
6.   The character should be delivering a straight kick, almost as if he were aiming for someone’s chest intending to knock them straight backward or into a wall/through a window/etc.  He should have his arms back slightly to steady himself and an angry look on his face.
7.   Special Attack 1: Character should be shown at a bar, bruised and beaten but with a grin on his face, with a cocktail in front of him.
8.   Special Attack 2: he should be shown with a generic fist coming from off camera, but he is grabbing the opponent’s wrist, pushing it downward and away, while winding up a punch with his other arm.
9.   Special Attack 3: This should be a near direct copy of the artist's illustration.
10.   Special Attack 4: The character should be shown in the middle of a dodge, on the floor, almost as if he is doing a squat to the side
but clearly ducking, off balance, and midmotion.
11.   Special Attack 5: The image should show the character, grinning slyly, looking up from a hand of cards and point a revolver with the other hand.  The perspective should be from his opponent in a card game


Some of these images will not necessarily be in a Street Fighter III style as you can see above.  They may be more of a "cut scene" style.

Please see new revisions to the original post, which should go up in just a sec.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 11:54:46 pm by prosscct »

Offline YellowLime

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Re: -Reworking; job to be reposted soon-

Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 07:30:22 am
Also, just a question, I'm not applying; just curious.. If you liked an applicant's sample and abilities would you hire them even if they've never worked professionally?

Interesting to me as well, since I've never worked professionally. :lol: If I had a lot of money (and pressure) for my project, I'd probably not hire someone without "pro" experience. (Verifiable work habit is important as well)

Unless, of course, the guy were very good (just no pro exp) and I were willing to accept the risk of having hired a slacker... Though anyway, a majority of the "top" pixel artists already have professional experience to some extent :)