AuthorTopic: Oblique perspective EGA RPG  (Read 16592 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 12:14:31 pm
Please look at Knights of Legend

http://crpgaddict.blogspot.gr/2013/03/game-94-knights-of-legend-1989.html

Some of the best EGA art ever and at your perspective! What we can learn from it:

Shadows make the houses make muuuch more sense as far as readability goes. If you can spare the tiles, go for it.

It's far mor noisy but look at the beautiful 'inbetween' tiles from grass to rock around the paths.

Shadows for trees too!

Offline BladeJunker

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 09:52:08 pm
Can't say much about the pixel art other than that it looks great. :) Yeah EGA skin color is funky to say the least, I like variety so I've used a Light Green to Grey to Light Red to Brown color ramp for Caucasians. I save the traditional EGA skin color for tan to darker people but brown skin is probably the most natural looking in the EGA palette.

Like most here I take issue with the text font, while not nearly as bad as fonts seen from those times you still have the same screen dimension constraint of those old RPGs IE. the 'Square Screen' plus Menu/HUD tab which is kind of small and awkward to sentence structures. I'm no stranger to small confines being a proponent of SD-TV and Split-Screen so I suggest the following.

-I'd definitely avoid slanting at low resolutions, it's very rare to see that work outside of large fonts and or high resolutions.

-Using no AA often looks cheap and only panned out well on consoles running on SD-TVs so 2 to 3 colors total applied sparingly would be best on VGA monitors that these games appeared on.

-Lastly have you considered using uppercase only with lowercase being a smaller version of the uppercase shape? This helps greatly in maximizing resolution for 'fancy' text in small low resolution spaces. I admit it's not proper but the combination of fancy, low res, and lowercase really doesn't work well in the long run imho especially for such a descriptive prompt.

Anyway keep up the great work, I would love to play this game if you have any ambitions to take it further. ;)

Offline Adam

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 11:47:36 pm
@Ymedron, Seiseki:
Right, lowercase letters with different height are usually more easy to recognize. The font I did there with the funny "t" is based on the gaelic-celtic typeface, that's why the unusual letters.

@Seiseki:
I actually taught typography, but that seem like a hundred years ago. "The lower cap letters should follow the same line" seems a sensible guideline, but some letters (d, p, b...) do seem a bit inflated when I strictly follow this rule (in pixel-height not percieved height).

@Mathias:
Well, both palette and perspective communicate the player that he/she has to put effort into the game. But to be honest it was just me being lazy: I don't have to struggle to manage an own palette, and don't have to draw that much directions for the actors.

@Helm:
I already spotted you on that blog in the comments some time ago.
I dropped shadows in my initial game design because it emphasizes the small cheats I've done with inconsistent lightsource shading. Beside that day-night cycle is also intended, and  a static shadow could be awkward,I thought. Nevertheless I did gave it a go now. I'll be studying those screenshots, though I'm trying to avoid that much noise, as I'll display a lot more interactive objects, and they'd go lost in that much noise.

@BladeJunker:
Yeah, I'm still not quite sure why a large number of games do use white as skin color.
Slanting is now scratched, but I'm putting text AA on ice for a while until I find a way to pull it out nicely with these colours.
I wouldn't really like to use lo-caps text. I always read, that non-capital lowercase letter are much legible. I might do some experimenting there though.

So I haven't progressed that much this time. There's a new sceenshot:


With (my) programming limitations in sight I decided to use 50% black dither for shadows. It's probably not the finest, but it does work, and I try to avoid larger pure black clusters, for they will be used for non-visible areas.
Changed the wattle and daub tile colour to white, inspired by those "Knights of Legend" screenshots.
And a bit more text test. I chose to carry on with the last font: it still has some fancyness and maintains a clear and recognizable typeset.

Also tried a different style on trees:

It looks quite good in 1X in my opinion, but somehow falls apart if magnified.
Nice. Now do the whole thing with the EGA palette!

Offline Parkerbaby

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #13 on: March 27, 2013, 12:11:43 am
To me the bear seems like it is out of perspective. I don't know if it really is, though. It gives that impression because it looks like it could almost be in a side scroller as is. My mind keeps wanting to rotate it in 3d space.

 I am afraid to even attempt to edit it because this perspective scares me.

Also, I really love the art so far!  :y:

Offline Helm

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #14 on: March 27, 2013, 05:58:40 am
If you DO drop shadows, I would drop them in the direction of the flow of the building, not in the complete reverse, personally!

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #15 on: March 27, 2013, 09:29:35 am
If you DO drop shadows, I would drop them in the direction of the flow of the building, not in the complete reverse, personally!
seconding that. Seeing a bright wall and then a shadows is translated by my brain as "the castle is hovering 2m over the ground. Should it land here ? I'd rather not adventure just below it right now, if I were in charge..."

Offline Adam

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #16 on: March 27, 2013, 10:32:18 pm
@Parkerbaby:
Yeah, the head and legs probably suggest a slightly less skewed projection, but as trying to remedy this only made the poor animal really weird.

@Helm and PypeBros
I was thinking that dropping the shadow the other way would show a lot more of it. But had a "Knights of Legend"-like try at it too now:

I'm starting to like the non-dithered, strong shadow.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 11:33:59 pm by Adam »
Nice. Now do the whole thing with the EGA palette!

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #17 on: March 27, 2013, 10:56:04 pm
Oh man, that strong shadow looks awesome. It has a really great evening light mood to it that makes the dithered one look weak.  :o

This might be a direction worth investigating. :3c
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Facet

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #18 on: March 28, 2013, 12:40:51 am
Seconding strongshadow love :y:, of the lot actually! The solid black is a lot more punchy and complements all the brightness/high sat. elsewhere else; looks like high summer sun

The new tree is improvement too imo although maybe a bit toony in situ, the old is a tad 'spray-can', a lot of stuff is hard going with that palette though, The only bit that stands out to me atm is that inventory sidebar you mentioned earlier, I'm sure there's something more could be wrung out of there, I'll try and get back later with some ideas to that end. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 12:44:34 am by Facet »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Oblique perspective EGA RPG

Reply #19 on: March 28, 2013, 08:22:16 am
I'd have been tempted to suggest to drop the shadow only 1 frame out of two and let our retina average the two, but there's no chance the EGA hardware would have supported that ... Plus, we're talking about fairly large areas and strong contrast difference. The flickering might not have been as comfortable as for a waterfall.