AuthorTopic: Pocket Fighter stlye  (Read 14745 times)

Offline Ro83rt

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Pocket Fighter stlye

on: June 28, 2006, 02:36:28 am
A while back I tried to use pocket fighter style with my SNK fighter for Scuba's King of Spriter's 2006.
Here he is:


I liked pixeling him so I decided to give him a makeover:
† †<--- Old / New ---->†

Any C&C to help me improve?

*Edited*


@Ptoing - I think I fixed a bit. Maybe you would like to give me some more advice on how to reduce my selout?


NEWEST EDIT AT TOWARDS THE BOTTOM
« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 02:04:19 am by Ro83rt »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #1 on: June 28, 2006, 03:04:58 am
lose the selout, that will make it 200% better instantly.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #2 on: June 28, 2006, 04:45:28 am
 I disagree with that. Losing the selout will make the sprite look less pocket fighter. Sel-out is important for capcom and pocket fighter style sprites. I really like the character sprite he made. He could be good for KOS.

Offline setz

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 07:22:11 am
Eh. I'm not too good with words, but I made an edit.



I don't think it's the selout itself that hurt the sprite; but you didn't seem to do it right. that and I noticed you used alot of colors, and in some points, only used them in one or so areas; I tried to take some of those and use them in others to get more worth for them. I also completely re-did the feet; pocket fighter feet are basically blocks with toes. I'm not the greatest with this style, or really the most knowledgeable, and this edit was mostly touchups of your selout and other various edits to help give you some direction.

Offline Razz

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 07:27:57 am
The original seems a bit more true to the Capcom / Pocket Fighter style than your edit, Setz.

Ro83rt, maybe you could try giving the orange a bit more saturation.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 10:14:03 am
I know capcom stuff has selout, but it's nowhere near as harsh as this, they use it sensibly. Go look at some pocket fighter sprites.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline setz

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #6 on: June 28, 2006, 10:51:58 pm
The original seems a bit more true to the Capcom / Pocket Fighter style than your edit, Setz.

yeah. I suppose I went a little overthetop. It was mainly the feet that bothered me.

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #7 on: June 28, 2006, 10:59:05 pm
Thanks for all of the help.† ;D It seems that Pocket fighters are the only thng I can consistantly do well. That's nice to know. Can anyone give me a few tips on how to animate this badboy? 



As you can see from my previous attempt from a while back, I'm not that good.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 11:02:07 pm by Ro83rt »

Offline st0ven

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #8 on: June 29, 2006, 04:02:45 am
hhmmm. ive been looking at this thread several times now and hoping each time to find some time to critique, but i havent had the time to put into it, but now i think i do, plus i see its motion and i figured that youre now going to need some better critique to improve to the *dun dun dun* "next level!"...

looking at the static sprite first, the design is fundamentally alright, i kindof like the idea that hes sort of alienesque. Im comparing the first version you did vs the makeover, i have to say i like the proportion of the very first rendition better. i think the torso looks a little thick and perhaps the limbs slightly too long or wide to correlate with the sizes of  the pocket fighter style. I think the pants on the newest rendition is probably the strongest part about it, it has a very clean feel at 1x zoom, though even still it has some 'loose pixels' that could use some smoothing out.

His feet... well, its hard to describe it, but as they stand now they kindof look like they just got ran over by a humvee man. take a look at the formity of the feet of the pocket fighter avatar of yours (even though i think their feet are longer and loook very slightly ran over as well to some degree, perhaps too 'long'). Even though your old version had no toes i liked the overall foot shape a lot better. The anatomy of the arms looks a bit generic at this point, id like to see a little definition in the knuckles or the shoulder bulge in the arm (which as it stands now looks like the shoulders come all the way down to where the mid to lower bicep should be ending).

i think the main thing id say could be improved is the level/depth of shading involved with the sprite. I would expect this version to be the beginning of the 'laying down basic light sources' step in the process of making an image (assuming it were done step by step in such a manner). Other than that, no real detail has been established, and i realize that this is somewhat remniscient of how pocket fighter sprites come across, but even then their art has a strong sense of line variation, stye, and ample contrast throughout the image. I think by comparison, this blue dude looks a bit 'light', there are a good number of midtones, but no real highlights or shadow values which would otherwise give him a nice sense of form and depth.

and actually, since the animation doesnt really have much to do with the new rendition of the sprite i think ill hold off on commenting on that for now.



my best advice would

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #9 on: June 29, 2006, 04:58:58 am
Wow....did St0ven just reply to one of my threads?  :o

You're the reason I even decided to try Pocket Fighters. I visit your website all of the time and I try to study your tutorials and techniques all of the time. I guess I'm not that good at applying the techniques but I'm trying. Anyway, thanks St0ven and everyone else for pitching in and helping me on this little project of mine. I really appriciate it, espeially with me bieng such a newb and all. I will defiently take all of your ideas into heavy consideration St0ven. For now I'm gonna hit the hay though. Keep it up St0ven!

P.S. St0ven, I don't really think you finished your reply. It kinda just cuts off at "MY best aadvice"...
And please finish your "Undead" layout!!! I really want to see the finished product.

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #10 on: June 30, 2006, 12:16:27 am
Here's a total re-do of COBALT the Pocket fighter. Thanks for everyone's input and I hope that it shows in this new work. Major porps to St0ven!

Things I changed† or tried to improve

-redid base outline
-added headband
-different shading technique
-more detail
-tried to add depth
-changed the feet
-changed gi
-attempted to sel-out better
-Tried to utilize colors better
-14 color count
-lighter skin
-fixed teeth

<----OLD / NEW ------>

† † †† † ††† † †
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 04:49:32 pm by Ro83rt »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #11 on: June 30, 2006, 04:33:33 pm
I think this latest update you've taken it in the completely wrong direction in terms of the shading, now it looks flat and choppy, and you waste shades of blue that should be used to shade the entire skin instead of doing it mostly the lightest color.  The only problem that you had before was that you donít know how to selout, but now it lacks depth too.

In this beautiful rendering by Michelangelo, which I've desecrated for you, you can see proper 'selout' technique applied to the contours of the figure


Typically, concave contours are darker, heavier, and convex contours are lighter and thinner, as indicated by my white and black marks.  Studying the masters is typically the best way to learn how to use techniques to your advantage (besides actual practice, of course)

A fine note on selout : dark pixels should almost never just be on the outside edge of a row, since this makes it look harsh and jagged instead of smooth.  This is where many of your smoothness issues originate.


http://www.bunnybass.com/e-zine/phototips/00.examplepics/drawings/drawingpics/after_michelangelo.jpg <----another good example of good outlineing practices, not by michelangelo but by someone trying to be him
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 04:45:03 pm by Adarias »
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Offline Alex

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #12 on: June 30, 2006, 09:05:59 pm
i always feel like such a cock after editing peoples work...anyways, sorry if you take offence of me editing your piece, i just thought it was real cute and i wanted to change the colors.

alexander

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #13 on: July 01, 2006, 02:02:07 am
* Goes to copy your idea *




No offence taken at all Alex. I'm actually flattered.† ;) Do you have any critiques though?


« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 04:49:15 pm by Ro83rt »

Offline Alex

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #14 on: July 01, 2006, 02:37:42 am
well, its not so much of an idea, moreso a common thing amongst pixels, that being pallette swapping and whatnot, but umm i dont have much to say though, just go easy on the contrast and saturation. thats all.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2006, 02:44:42 am by Alex »
alexander

Offline Sol

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #15 on: July 02, 2006, 01:41:25 pm
Your characters too tall. PF sprites are stumpy, and have larger hands, and feet. Less body, and more head, feet, and hands.

EDIT: Heres what I mean.

Most of them while standing straight up are the height of your squating. Now though I can see its the head being too large, and his body being a tad wide that is doing it.

Also, his hands need work on each side. Thats not how a fist looks from that angle. Ball your fist up in the mirror, and you can see what I mean. I can show you what I mean if you'd like.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 01:51:40 pm by Sol »
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Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #16 on: July 03, 2006, 03:52:16 am
Sol : Thanks for your help. About the height however I don't reallly see what you mean.

† VS.†

In both of these fighters they're both squating and yet they're about the same size give or take a few pixels due to his boppin' around. Maybe I could tone him down a little bit, but for now I don't really think his proportions are that far off.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 04:48:59 pm by Ro83rt »

Offline Sol

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #17 on: July 03, 2006, 10:44:20 am
I think the problem I see is his leg/midsection placement. Your PF sprites legs are longer than Ken PF, while his midsection is longer. So it gives the allusion that one is taller than the other.
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Offline Feron

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #18 on: July 03, 2006, 11:01:31 am
I don't think its a problem.  IRL people are different sizes, why should all the characters be the same height.  Variance keeps things interesting.  Great job so far :D

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #19 on: July 03, 2006, 06:06:20 pm
Well, since I feel confident in my sprite I tried to animate it.



I think it goes without saying that I need some serious help. Animation and me just don't mix.

I got to work on a new fighter. right now he's just a rough line sketch but you should still be able to make out who he is.



First place goes to the one who figures out who he is first.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 04:48:27 pm by Ro83rt »

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #20 on: July 03, 2006, 09:14:47 pm
its mario..
Try creating the animation before you color it up(animate the lineart first). It might help you focus on the animation first so you arn't hindered by the colors and shadeing. With animation, you have to repixel alot of the character, shifting pieces isn't that good.

Offline Xion

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #21 on: July 04, 2006, 01:38:34 am
Just wiggling that dangly thing between his legs isn't really working very well. (*Cough*)

Same with the bandana. When fabric mixes with wind there tends to be a waving pattern, rather than your current wiggling pattern. Also, for arm animation why dont you try moving:
1. The fists and arms seperately,
2. Them more than one pixel.
Some classic fighter-sprite bouncing could also fit somewhere in there, like the character from your avatar.

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #22 on: July 04, 2006, 04:08:39 am
Alex HW : You win first prize. Sweet. Anyway thanks for the advice. Is that how you animate stuff? It seems like a really smart way to do things. I'll try it with this new mario sprite I'll be working on.

Xion Night : That wiggly thing is supposed to be a cloth belt. Like the ones you get in karate? Anyway I totally agree with you on my desperate attempt to animate fabric. I tried to make a waving pattern but it's really hard for me.

I'll take all of this in and try to animate Mario.   :D

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #23 on: July 04, 2006, 05:31:20 am
that is not entirely true Xion, it is the ussual style to do fabric in wind as waving fabric in sprites, but that does not mean that every time you put wind to fabric it will start waving, it's actually pretty rare...the reason it's usually done that way has more to do with easy looping than realistic movement.

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #24 on: July 04, 2006, 07:10:16 am
EDIT



tried to animate Mario, using some tips from Alex Hw and Xion Night.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #25 on: July 04, 2006, 07:20:10 am
that is a lot better it actually looks like a Pocket Fighter stance animation, I can see you made good use of Kon and Xion's advice.

I think your blue skinned dude still needs some tweaks, your sense of contrast doesnt quite match Pocket Figther style, I think you need to up it a bit in the kimono and lower it on the skin.

also, I've never really seen such harsh lighting in a Pocket fighter sprite, check some more refference faces, try to look for the one with the harshest lighting and see how far off you are.

Offline Souly

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #26 on: July 04, 2006, 08:51:55 am
Couldn't resist.


I used Zangeif as a size set.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 08:53:42 am by Souly »

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #27 on: July 04, 2006, 05:17:40 pm
Heh, great line-art Souly! I smell a battle going on!



VS.† †† †


Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #28 on: July 05, 2006, 03:27:04 am
Well, here it is. My attempt at Mario Pocket Fighter. I didn't animate him yet, but At this stage I think I like him.

Yeah, he shaved. I didn't really know how to approach his mustache but if anyone wants to make an edit, feel free. C & C would be appreciated.



Just a progress animation.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #29 on: July 05, 2006, 04:35:12 am
looks too desaturated. pocket fighters have more saturation than that.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #30 on: July 05, 2006, 04:44:27 am
is there an echo in here? =)

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #31 on: July 05, 2006, 04:54:10 am
is there an echo in here? =)
is that question aimed at me? looking at your posts, you mentioned contrast, but nothing of saturation.
 ???

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #32 on: July 05, 2006, 05:46:51 am
For now I really don't think I need more saturation. If someone wants to make an edit to show me what you mean and I like what I see then fine, but I don't think saturation is really that important. I like my color choices and I'm really surprised to see Alex Hanson-White criticizing my saturation choices.
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=1396.0
CLick there and see what I mean.

I don't mean to seem like an ass, but "more saturation, and more contrast" are the only issues I seem to get. I know I asked for C & C but I kinda meant on the figure, and anatomy, rather than my color choices. MAybe I should've specified. Once again just voicing my opinion and don't mean to sound like an ass.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #33 on: July 05, 2006, 05:56:24 am
well, I have to agree, the colours youve used are pretty out of style. alex's picture you linked to was his own style, he wasnt trying to match another style so you dont really have much of a point :-\
if you just compare the colours to the ken in your avatar, the red and skin tones are quite different. and I think the reason you couldnt get the mustache looking right is because you werent using black, and you werent using black because it looked too harsh against the other colours right?
also marios hat doesnt look much like his hat.. it looks more like a knockoff cap :P

I think your anatomy is alright, except for hat anatomy :P but your main issue is definetly the colours

best of luck, I look forward to seeing the finished result
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Offline Conzeit

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #34 on: July 05, 2006, 06:04:20 am
Quite honestly I dont see a reason to complain if our crits are completly valid and relevant to the style you aim to duplicate.

get accostumed to pallete crits, it is an important part of what makes pixelart what it is, so people will have opinions on it.

if you arent exactly getting the amount or variety of crits you expected it might be because Pixelation is more focused on creating your own methods of expression rather than duplicating someone else's.

I belive there are better places much more specialized in duplicating someone else's style. http://z4.invisionfree.com/PrimeCentralStation/index.php?showtopic=824&st=75

I can understand you are trying to make Mario look like a fighting character but I think you are going a bit too far, this is almost looking like a ryu dresesd up as mario. I would sprite him in exactly the original proportions

But if you insist in making him seem like he was designed by capcom give him atleast his original nose and his potbelly.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 06:13:56 am by Conceit »

Offline Souly

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #35 on: July 05, 2006, 10:47:48 am
Tried fixing up your face to make it look more "Mario"



- Added hair and re-vamped the hat.
- Fixed the moustach and added a mario sized nose.
- Added a ear, and tried making the gloves more 'glovey'
« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 11:42:15 am by Souly »

Offline Skull

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #36 on: July 05, 2006, 10:56:43 am
Tried fixing up your face to make it look more "Mario"



It does: much better. But The gloves aren't... glovey enough, seeing as mario has rather large-ish gloves.

Offline Ro83rt

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #37 on: July 07, 2006, 01:31:55 am
My update. I now agree with what you all said with contrast and with the fact that my old Pf looked like "Ryu dressed in Mario's clothes". So here's my attempt to make him look more like that plumber we all know and love.† †
---->† TRIED TO ADD COLOR CONTRAST ----->†

Offline snake

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #38 on: July 07, 2006, 08:43:53 pm
Added a Luigi to accompany the Bowser sprite just for kicks: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/SnakemanEXE/Luigisprite.png
Fun stuff.

Anywhoo, over to the critique:

There's a mixed feeling of shadows here. The muscles on his arms could be shown by a full shadow rather than a single line. The shadow on his eyes seem to merge with his hair, so there should be at least a separating line there. His pants need to have more contrast in the shadows. The saturated colours look nice, but his shoes look like they're glowing now and the light on the front of his cap does not match the part sticking out in front of his eyes.

Great sprite so far though. Looking forward to seeing it finished.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2006, 02:30:55 pm by snake »

Offline Xion

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #39 on: July 07, 2006, 10:16:14 pm
My update. I now agree with what you all said with contrast and with the fact that my old Pf looked like "Ryu dressed in Mario's clothes". So here's my attempt to make him look more like that plumber we all know and love.   
---->  TRIED TO ADD COLOR CONTRAST -----> 

You added saturation, not contrast. I actually like the left one better, but to add contrast, make the shadows darker and the hilights lighter.

Offline Alex

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #40 on: July 07, 2006, 11:07:55 pm
holy thread hi-jacking
alexander

Offline snake

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #41 on: July 08, 2006, 02:26:33 pm
holy thread hi-jacking

Point taken. Guess it gives the wrong impression. Post will be edited to be less hi-jacky.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #42 on: July 15, 2006, 05:57:36 am
I don't mean to seem like an ass, but "more saturation, and more contrast" are the only issues I seem to get. I know I asked for C & C but I kinda meant on the figure, and anatomy, rather than my color choices. MAybe I should've specified. Once again just voicing my opinion and don't mean to sound like an ass.

you've pretty much completely disregarded a number of critiques that had nothing to do with the contrast or the palette, even the one st0ven posted.

the mario looks ok, but i just cant figure the pose and how it relates to the character.  still, is a nice representation of the retro figure
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The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Pocket Fighter stlye

Reply #43 on: July 18, 2006, 09:58:42 pm
 One thing I've found about your fighter sprite compared to capcom is color saturation. If you analyze the colors, they only have hue variation and good contrast with 2 shades or 3. Also the saturation is neon! Either use high saturation or dessaturate them only a bit down.