AuthorTopic: The Pixel Wiki  (Read 7662 times)

Offline Phlakes

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The Pixel Wiki

on: January 27, 2013, 11:00:31 pm
I was looking through the Ramblethread, and anyone who was in there four years probably doesn't but might remember the idea of a pixel art wiki for consolidating all the kinds of things we talk about in critique, which was decided against at the time for several reasons.

But it might be worth it.

As long as I've been around, which isn't as long as a lot of people, there's never been one reliable place to get information. Over the last couple of days/weeks I've seen maybe twenty people try to explain banding on separate occasions in separate places. There are a lot of great tutorials, but none of them have everything, and what they do have is all one perspective.

Basically I think it's about time this happened.

Ideally, it would have two things-

Technical things like the mechanics behind techniques, color theory, and more general knowledge stuff like old console restrictions,

and-

Subjective explanations of techniques and theories, preferably with multiple perspectives. Naturally, and this is what this forum is built on, the best way to learn is by getting a lot of varied and unique input.

So on the hypothetical dithering page you'd have-

Quote
Dithering

This is the definition of dithering and other things about it.

Sub Header

Person 1: Here are some things about dithering I've learned.

Person 2: This is how I use dithering to buffer shades.

Person 3: This is how I dither to add texture.

And so on.

This thread posted itself early so I'll edit in the rest of what was meant to be here.

(And that's done)

As far as running it, what could work-

-Having two different types of contributors, public editors who can do all the typical wiki things, and pre-approved VIPs who would be the source of the detailed explanation. As far as what it would take to be one of them, I couldn't say, but it would definitely try to avoid being too exclusive.

-Wikia gives each wiki a dedicated forum. Being able to discuss articles was one of the big concerns in the Ramblethread, so maybe having a forum thread dedicated to each page (which would be linked to in the page) could take care of that side. What I would even do is have particularly well-written discussion from the thread be put up on the page, and going along with that first point that might be a way for a user to become one of those VIPs.

EDIT: The pages also have their own Talk section that I somehow missed until now, so it can be split into discussion of the page itself in the Talk section and discussion of the content in the forum.

-With relatively strict control over editing and separating the two types of content, moderating should be a pretty easy job of just making sure no one screws with it. At least while it's not too populated.

And there would be the obligatory tutorial dump, less educational pages on certain games, etc.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 04:20:18 am by Phlakes »

Offline Lanarky

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #1 on: January 28, 2013, 12:34:40 am
This is one of those things I would look everywhere for when I was first starting out (and I mean countless hours on google), and had no success on finding a site like the one you are considering. Honestly, I think this is a great idea that would help a lot of beginners. Another good idea is to add external links to other tutorials, like Tsugumo's 'So you want to be a pixel artist', or Ptoing's excellent running animation tutorial (both of which took me awhile to find).

I'd like to see this pull through, because I can really see it helping lots of people learn how to pixel or learn various art styles from previous consoles.

Offline Ai

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #2 on: January 28, 2013, 01:13:30 am
In fact there was a wiki with information like this, I think Peppermint Pig was the one pushing that forward. However after a while it stagnated. I think it would need some way to stimulate new input -- for example, CC threads could be archived there.

I think part of the problem was also that you don't typically think 'today I'll improve my dithering skills' -- that's much too specific. 'Today I'll improve my anatomy skills' is a more ordinary proposition. So a way to draw people from the issues of their current work into the techniques that they may eventually want to employ, is needed. A way to contextualize things. Analyses of outstanding works (say, works in the PixelJoint top 100) could help people appreciate that there is value in studying up on these things. We have some analyses of a few of these here, in the Feature Chest
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 01:16:26 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Helm

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #3 on: January 28, 2013, 07:36:11 am
Another reason I avoided this is because I do not think my theory on clusters or banding or whatever should be seen as gospel. I think it's good that people have to search the forums for these sorts of explanations or get them first-hand again by someone because that's a process that clues them in as to how these ideas came to exist in the first place and how best to filter them.

Offline Arne

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #4 on: January 28, 2013, 03:27:56 pm
Wikis are problematic on a fuzzy topic like this since there's no "author's disclaimer", so you end up with the awkward "gospel" writing problem. Some people might not want to contribute because they feel it would be arrogant, so you're more likely to get contributions from other types of people. Also, pixel art is a fairly new thing so we don't have centuries of well established terminology and theories available. I have a whole bunch of fuzzy unnamed concepts in my mind like... "double metal gradient style" which I'd use to describe Xenon II, Paradroid 90 and perhaps Killing Game Show. We've made some attempts at describing pixel art styles, like 16-bit RPG, or 8-bit, but I rarely see those applied well.

I've been asked a few times to write a tutorial on pixel art, but I can't decide to what degree I want to make it about technique since I've already written a thing about approaching art in general. Pixel art to me is mostly like regular art scaled down, made carefully pixel aligned, simplified readability-wise, so I'd be more interested in writing about what's beyond that, like restrictions, and the quirks and qualities which are unique to pixel art.

Another way to approach it is to look at what mistakes (I do believe there are certain "traps" encouraged, maybe specifically by the pixel art medium) people tend to make the most and address those. Pillow shading compulsions (telephone doodling), dirty pointless ramps ("more colors are better"), excessive black lining ("everything must be separated"), etc. This way people can directly engage a topic, rather than reading general advice and figure out where those can be applied practically.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 03:50:32 pm by Arne »

Offline Ymedron

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #5 on: January 28, 2013, 04:38:11 pm
Regarding the "gospel" problem, I don't think it'd be too impossible to enforce a rule where articles are all "-Pixel Art Technique- By -Author-"?
Especially if we make indexes for them?
Like for example:
Technique -> Refining->Antialias
CC -> Finished art -> Commercial Criticism
or something like that.

I think it'd be a good idea to have some kind of repository for all the tutorials past just forum links, because sometimes links die. Nothing is more frustating than seeing an interesting link to an article or a post that has been deleted. :C
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Helm

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #6 on: January 28, 2013, 06:26:38 pm
That only serves to canonize the author, not urge a critical eye towards them.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #7 on: January 28, 2013, 07:29:17 pm
I wonder what is the difference between wikis (with authors attributed) and tutorial collection sites, that make it so the latter is less immutable!truth than the former?
It would still be nice to have an actual website collection of all the "useful" information rather than just a forum, since you often get lost in a forum and the information isn't as condensed as it would otherwise be. :<
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Phlakes

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #8 on: January 30, 2013, 06:47:46 am
I've been doing a bit of experimenting, maybe this'll give a better sense of what I mean.

That hypothetical dithering page again, now less hypothetical.

Instead of each article being a gospel kind of thing from one author, there would be a very solid division between the technical side and the personal side, and no one perspective taking priority. They don't even have to be credited, either.

As far this-

I think it's good that people have to search the forums for these sorts of explanations or get them first-hand again by someone because that's a process that clues them in as to how these ideas came to exist in the first place and how best to filter them.

-that could actually be part of it. If there could be one place to look for relevant quality threads, that would be endlessly useful.

Basically, the point of it all is two things-

-Making what's essentially a pixel art encyclopedia that can be easily referenced. That's pretty much the entire reason wikis exist, and lord knows how many times I've checked game wikis to find out names and little bits of lore. It takes the searching out of research and gives you one simple, hopefully comprehensive resource.

-And it's a way to consolidate tutorials, forum threads, discussion, and whatever else from everywhere on the internet. That way you get what you normally would from just looking around, but in the same place, and with even more information to complement it.

So it wouldn't only be an independent source, it would also be a hub for anything that could be useful to anyone reading it.

EDIT: That's actually a distinction I want to make- I'm thinking of it more as an encyclopedia for referencing when you need it rather than a textbook that you'd use as an exclusive learning tool.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 06:50:18 am by Phlakes »

Offline r1k

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Re: The Pixel Wiki

Reply #9 on: January 30, 2013, 08:08:10 am
In the case of dithering (and maybe other subjects), I think it would be good to explain why its used from a historical context as well.  Like that it was used in old systems because they couldnt use high color counts.  That way people reading could understand that its not a requirement for pixel art, that they dont need to consider it as much if they can use more colors, etc.  Basically, explain how to use it, but also why, though the why portion ought to be written objectively (hence expalining it from historical context rather than one artists particular reasons).