AuthorTopic: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes  (Read 44072 times)

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #70 on: July 16, 2013, 03:08:52 pm
Guys, there's a game that recently came out, which is about a bond-like spy going after a bond-like villian, plays roughly like canabalt and the aesthethic is of flat shading emphasizing sillouethes. supposedly 50's or 60's poster art is an inspiration. I cant for the life of me remember the name of the game. I search for it and I keep getting usng keywords like "spy canabalt hi def vector" and I keep getting gunpoint (the fully fleshed game version of trilby) I dont mean gunpoint....anybody know what I mean? something like THAT would've been a better option for Flashback, even if some modifications for extra detail would be necesary

The thing with these HD remakes is using pixelart is like inherently putting a veil over your art to hide certain details and keep things unspecified. When they specify the detail it's like removing that veil, so more ambience another form of obfuscation that feels organic must be used so the veil is pushed into the background rather than removed. I like gestural styles and natural media looking artifacts, there should be enough that they fit each series.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 03:54:57 pm by Conceit »

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #71 on: July 16, 2013, 04:12:16 pm
Guys, there's a game that recently came out, which is about a bond-like spy going after a bond-like villian, plays roughly like canabalt and the aesthethic is of flat shading emphasizing sillouethes. supposedly 50's or 60's poster art is an inspiration. I cant for the life of me remember the name of the game. I search for it and I keep getting usng keywords like "spy canabalt hi def vector" and I keep getting gunpoint (the fully fleshed game version of trilby) I dont mean gunpoint....anybody know what I mean? something like THAT would've been a better option for Flashback, even if some modifications for extra detail would be necesary

I believe it was just called Vector.   :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF97oUDPFCw

Feel a little uncomfortable how close it is to their obvious inspiration. 

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #72 on: July 16, 2013, 07:23:59 pm
I believe it was just called Vector.   :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF97oUDPFCw
Some feeling of dejavu ... And my brain almost immediately linked the kind of action to a Tintin story ;)

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #73 on: July 17, 2013, 01:56:51 am
Played around with this a bit just for fun.





Added bigger areas of darkness.
More interplay of color. 
Used a sharpen filter since half size was a little soft.
And generally made a mess everywhere.
Did everything with blending modes so it doesn't change as much as it could.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Corinthian Baby

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #74 on: July 17, 2013, 02:02:43 am
I'm curious about how this HD/remake phenomenon affects indies. For example WaterMelon co. (who has done some recruiting here I believe) made Pier Solar with legit megadrive specs, had some nice pixels, and was well received. They then launched a subsequent successful kickstarter to fund an HD version:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/573261866/pier-solar-hd-an-rpg-for-xbox360-pc-mac-linux-and

The art director talks about having to work within the restrictions of genesis for the original homebrew version, vs. the freedoms/limitless colors/tiles/layers for the HD version. If you ask me the pixel version looks much better/cleaner, and I'm sure the others here would agree. The limitations create a much more focused and precise look while the painted tiles are bit harder to read, they're a more cluttered and filtered skewing the priorities.

I think both styles have merit, as I said before painted tiles can be done well, but I think conceit is right on the money when it comes to translating pixels to high res, that there is something lost in the translation of seeing more.

If there are any lessons to be learned from remakes, they're surely taken from nintendo. (All they do is remake/redux their old games, and usually successfully.) Look at metroid zero mission vs. the NES original. One has a lot less limitations, but the same spirit is charged through the tiles. (Both are still pixelart but the comparison is exemplar of higher res/capabilities and how you use them. They still had to reinterpret some of the more vague lowres stuff, but did so creatively/compellingly.)

That Vector game looks interesting. Reminds me of mirror's edge for obvious reasons, but does have the bond edge to it. Stylish too.

@pixelpiledriver:
Certainly looks juicer with the color edits, brings some of that depth back. One of the problems I have with the orig are the specular glows emanating from those fire donuts.

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #75 on: July 17, 2013, 08:53:22 am
Personally I'd really love to make a HD game - it's much harder to get right though for sure (not to mention more work).

As much as I love pixels they're not perfect for everything. We have to be honest - marketing wise, there's an ever widening age-group behind us that didn't grow up with it, and potentially doesn't get it.  Not going to stop us, of course, but sometimes it feels like it's getting increasingly niche and self-indulgent. (I hope this isn't too inflammatory, I certainly don't want to discourage any of us dedicating a lot of time perfecting the art, all I mean is it's not all there is to know). 

(2D) HD games are still relatively virgin territory, there's plenty that hasn't been done or fully explored.  Style wise you can look exactly like any saturday morning cartoon, classical painting, modern art, collage, anime, claymation - whatever your personal style it can be right there with no disguise.  I find that pretty exciting.  With pixels you can look exactly like a game from whichever era you find most nostalgic, certainly with unique personal style, but the style is confined (with both benefits and detriment). 

Offline RAV

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #76 on: July 17, 2013, 10:59:13 am
like(1) this(2)?

That "smudging"-technique looks relatively fast in the hands of a very talented expert, considering the high resolution.
For a HD technique, it looks more artistic than photo-sourcing and more detailed than vector art.

Offline tim

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #77 on: July 17, 2013, 11:54:43 am
I'm currently working on my own HD game.
What I found, over the first year working on it, is that you HAVE to restrict the colors if you want to keep this retro feel,
(don't be limitated by the numbers, but try to stick to a palette, just like painters did in the past). Also paint using clumps
of colors instead of smooth gradients (just like pixel art did), and you have to animate by hand frame by frame instead of
animating layers.
Founder of Odd Tales
Art Director - Game Director - Game designer - Motion designer

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #78 on: July 17, 2013, 07:49:52 pm
Guys, there's a game that recently came out, which is about a bond-like spy going after a bond-like villian, plays roughly like canabalt and the aesthethic is of flat shading emphasizing sillouethes. supposedly 50's or 60's poster art is an inspiration. I cant for the life of me remember the name of the game. I search for it and I keep getting usng keywords like "spy canabalt hi def vector" and I keep getting gunpoint (the fully fleshed game version of trilby) I dont mean gunpoint....anybody know what I mean? something like THAT would've been a better option for Flashback, even if some modifications for extra detail would be necesary

I believe it was just called Vector.   :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF97oUDPFCw

Feel a little uncomfortable how close it is to their obvious inspiration.

Thx, but no that isnt the one. this one didnt have black sillouethes. everything was flat colors but it wasnt just sillouethes, I think the spy had a white suit. The enviroments were actually not like canabalt, it was very fancy bond-like rooms. it also had cutscenes where you could see the characters had no face features. The protagonist might actually be the bondlike villian not the bondlike character.

@TIM: That's really interesting. I think part of it might be that pixelart forces some cohesion, so when the limits  are removed someone who isnt observant as you are might just try to solve things by adding more colors/gradients/filters/whatever instead of improving the aesthetics
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 08:12:05 pm by Conceit »

Offline Mathias

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Re: Flashback HD & The terrible truth of remakes

Reply #79 on: July 18, 2013, 12:40:15 am
I'm currently working on my own HD game.

Where's our sneak peek!?


*EDIT   Because I'm doing one, too. And mine's gonna be betterest.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 04:54:48 am by Mathias »