AuthorTopic: Game Developement  (Read 16447 times)

Offline Crow

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 10:29:00 am
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Offline Ymedron

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 10:52:16 am
Regarding the motivated-link... Someone in the comments said this:

“If you want to be a games programmer then just answer this one question. Imagine someone said you couldn’t make another game again. Would you be able to carry on living? Could you imagine yourself living a happy life in which you did no game development whatsoever? If the answer is no, then you’ll be just fine – but the answer has to be no.”

Is there anything one can do to gain this level of motivation? :c It kind of makes me wonder whether I should even try when I don't feel any kind of passion for it. Or anything else save drawing for that matter.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Crow

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 11:47:26 am
Just do it! Nothing can go wrong. You don't even have to finish said game, and you'll be having a lot of fun on the way regardless, and possibly also learn a lot. It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey.
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Offline Ymedron

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 11:50:29 am
Suppose so - I guess I need to continue the code academy courses first.  :sry:
It still seems really amazing that you could code stuff like minecraft on javascript, but perhaps it's not as magical as it looks like!
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Crow

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 01:06:52 pm
Don't mix up Java and JavaScript, they're not related. Minecraft was written in Java, which - by now - is rather powerful.
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Offline Charlieton

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 03:23:30 pm
Yeah, I don't think you should grant that comment any value. It just comes across to me as elitist and exclusionary. It also seems to contradict itself: it poses the question of whether you want to be a game programmer, in a way you would ask a person with little to no prior experience in the field. It then proceeds to ask whether you could live without making another game, "again", thus implying that you already have gone through the process of making a game. If you have already made a game, then by defintion you already are in the business of making games. Thus, asking whether you want "to be a games programmer" is redundant.

However, though clumsily executed, the point seems to be that if you are going to be a game programmer, it has to be your life blood and the thought of ever giving it up is crippling and devastating to you. Essentially, without it you no longer have any meaning in life. Now, THAT is a horrible thing to demand out of anyone about anything! And when it's applied to a novice in any particular field, it is especially cruel and counter-intuitive. The road to creating your first game - or anything, really - can be wrought with hardships and unpleasantries, only to be followed up with what might be, at best, a mediocre product. A product that offers you, the creator, no satisfaction at all, save from the fact that you're finally done and don't have to put up with it anymore. If that has been your only experience so far, then the answer is YES, you think you will be able to go on living without ever wanting to do it again. Thus, by the logic of that comment, you are disqualified from making games. And that is simply not true.

Instead, I would recommend people to take some cues from Tommy Refenes and his thoughts on making games. Motivate yourself by believing in what you are creating. Take small steps, so you don't have to wait long until you can see progress being made. And if at first it simply doesn't work out, don't let it discourage you. Because...
You don't even have to finish said game, and you'll be having a lot of fun on the way regardless, and possibly also learn a lot. It's not the destination that counts, it's the journey.

I'm also working my way through Codecademy, Javascript at the moment :P. Very pedagogic stuff! I don't know yet how far along the course of programming my own stuff it will take me, but it's doing a good job of introducing the basics so far.

Great thread!
Det skulle vara lätt för mig att säga att jag inte gillar dig, men det gör jag; tror jag

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 04:16:35 pm
Thank you, Crow, Charlieton. (and Pixelpiledriver for writing this topic, of course! Its easy to forget to thank people..!)

At first I didn't want to ask about the differences of Java and Javascript since I was worried we were derailing the topic, but I guess it has to do with game development..! Why are these two separate, and what use is learning javascript (other than it being beginner friendly?)

Also that analysis of the quote really helped me put my doubts to bed. I've worried the same about making comics as well (as with everything else, it's hard to start doing) but it really makes more sense to think that if you haven't tried, you won't know if it is for you. And even if you have, gaining the motivation to go past the initial phase is not set by fate or your genes. It's just about... Motivation.
Also my art tumblr: ymedronart.tumblr.com

Offline Crow

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #17 on: January 20, 2013, 04:27:10 pm
Let's try briefly outlining some differences between Java and JavaScript.

JavaScript is used for clientside scripting on Websites, and pretty much nowhere else. That image zooming script on here? It's JavaScript. That's the purpose JS serves, and in that regard, it is not even its own language. It's a form of ECMAScript.

Java is actually a programming language (JavaScript ist a scripting language), and, therefore, has a way lower level than JavaScript (lower meaning closer to the hardware/architecture of your/a computer; Assembly is pretty damn low). It's not tailored for web stuff at all (but can be run using an applet anyway; not recommended), but rather can be used to do pretty much everything. From simple to complex tasks, typical applications to games and the like: you can do it with Java. It runs in it's own virtual machine, the Java virtual machine (JVM), which makes it a good choice for cross-platform applications/games, as the code can be used on all three major operating systems without many changes. The JVM is also a reason that it's sometimes not as efficient as other languages, however. There are many people you can get into an argument about with that, though, so let's not talk about it here.


To simplify: JavaScript is for web stuff only. Want to do that? Go with it. If not, you can go with Java instead, or one of the many other programming languages available to you. And don't be fooled: Java is not too difficult. In fact, many consider it a very good language for beginners. I personally don't really like it, but I agree that it's rather good to get into programming itself.
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Offline Ashbad

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #18 on: January 20, 2013, 04:52:48 pm
At first I didn't want to ask about the differences of Java and Javascript since I was worried we were derailing the topic, but I guess it has to do with game development..! Why are these two separate, and what use is learning javascript (other than it being beginner friendly?)

First of all, I'd like to point out that Java is probably just as beginner friendly as Javascript; hence why it's usually taught to first-year college Comp. Sci. students and AP Comp. Sci. students as a base language.

Javascript is generally used as a scripting language with web pages, but its use goes beyond just that.  It's a fun but powerful language and it's straightforward enough to learn basic programming concepts from; it's probably not my top recommendation for such purposes, however.  Here's an explanation of why they have similar names:

Quote
... The change of name from LiveScript to JavaScript roughly coincided with Netscape adding support for Java technology in its Netscape Navigator web browser. The final choice of name caused confusion, giving the impression that the language was a spin-off of the Java programming language, and the choice has been characterized by many as a marketing ploy by Netscape to give JavaScript the cachet of what was then the hot new web programming language.[11][12] It has also been claimed that the language's name is the result of a co-marketing deal between Netscape and Sun, in exchange for Netscape bundling Sun's Java runtime with its then-dominant browser.

Java is an even more versatile language; it's a purely Object Oriented language, with a syntax very similar to that of C/C++.  It's a (JIT) compiled language -- which for now you can just take to mean "faster execution".  Javascript is (generally) interpreted, and is therefore generally slower.  One of Java's design purposes was to give software developers efficiency and control similar to that of C/C++, but with better cross-platform support (a single Java executable conceivably will run on any device that has a Java VM; A C/C++ program has to be compiled for each type of device/Operating System in order to run on them.)

With more sugarcoat: Java is focused more around general-purpose programming; Javascript can be used similarly, but its main focus is around Webpage scripting.  Java is generally faster than Javascript.  Java and Javascript have different language syntax (similar to how English and Chinese have different language syntax.)

With that in mind, Java is often seen as a more viable platform for developing games on than Javascript.  Not that there aren't games written in JS, of course, there are just far less.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think the Code Academy is a great place to learn some of the basics of programming.  Another great option is to try learning a language like Python; it's a powerful language, but it's also great for beginners as well.  It even has an SDL wrapper, and even better for beginners, Pygame ( http://www.pygame.org/news.html ), which is perfectly fine for generally 2D game development.

Lua + LOVE is another common one, and I personally support the idea of learning Lua since it's an interesting and simple language that's good for beginners as well.

I'd say that while Java isn't hard to learn, I think it's a bad place to start when you have Lua/Python/others.  Especially since even the most basic programs require a lot of surrounding code that takes a while to understand.

Mastery of Java would probably lead one into C/C++/Obj-C, which are definitely a bit harder to get a good grasp of.  They provide some of the fastest code execution speeds at the cost of a steep learning curve.  Definitely not the place to start, but somewhere you should try to get to.

Assembly goes past that in difficulty; it hasn't been an essential in a game programmer's toolkit for over a decade, but learning and getting profficient at an assembly language for one architecture or more is an incredible skill to have (and it looks quite good on a resume!)  If nothing else it teaches you to become a much more wary C/C++/Obj-C programmer, and a better programmer in general.

Offline Crow

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Re: Game Developement

Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 05:13:39 pm
Lua + LOVE is another common one, and I personally support the idea of learning Lua since it's an interesting and simple language that's good for beginners as well.

Is that a common combination by now? That's a nice thing to hear, LÖVE has my full support. Very nice team, good project :) And another thing: when you say Lua is a simple language, I hope you don't underestimate it. Lua is one of the fastest scripting languages around, offering almost the same speed in code execution as lower level languages in some fields. It's easy to learn, yes, but very powerful. Just like Python :-*
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