AuthorTopic: Big boobed characters in video games  (Read 98200 times)

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #250 on: April 14, 2013, 11:22:54 pm
The world of men's right activism is so toxic that I bet I can find you videos online from people who are *steaming* that they are asked to lift heavy things / open jars and expound on the ramifications of this horrifying oppression to no end.

Yeah... "If you're a man you deal with it like a man and besides men are privileged so it doesn't matter.."
This is why I think MRAs are needed, as long as they acknowledge feminism and support it. As I don't believe one sex, or a movement focused on one sex can achieve gender equality.

But if you put it in a bigger perspective, like heavy lifting, men do all of the dangerous industrial work. There are also more male prostitutes than female. (at least in sweden, google it)
Even if the patriarchy is to blame for both of these things, they are still problems that need to be dealt with, sooner rather than later.

Do you think men need a men's right movement, or do their rights get covered by gender-neutral socialist activism and grassroots politics that protect worker rights and so on?

I don't think custody issues and such are covered by those movements, there are also social issues with gender roles.
And why would anyone be against a mens rights movement? The patriarchy hurts men too and as I said I don't believe one sex, or a movement focused on one sex can achieve gender equality.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:32:20 pm by Seiseki »

Offline Helm

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #251 on: April 14, 2013, 11:36:07 pm
I do not know of any MRA organisation that is friendly towards feminists, but then again I'm not American nor do I read reddit so I don't keep up with them. Sounds crazy, though. I think you've sidestepped my question, so I'll make it plainer. Feminism is about the systemic mistreatment of women by the patriarchy. Do you think the equivalent needs to exist when there is no systemic mistreatment of men by a matriarchy? MRA nuts claim otherwise, they claim we have been 'sissified by feminazis'. How does that make you feel? MRA groups are directly opposed to female empowerment. They claim that 'women have gone too far' and are already overpriviledged and are fighting back (usually bitter battles about alimony and child support). There's a lot of victim blaming, a lot of 'she deserved getting raped' and a lot of bitterness over a lifetime of small or large, percieved or actual sexual rejections.

Actual male issues are about work rights and a social state, welfare, etc. These are human concerns, they are not gendered. Do you disagree?

As to prostitution, I do not think sex work, if it is regulated and safe is a problem. Do you take a moral stance against it?

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #252 on: April 14, 2013, 11:52:21 pm
If a man isn't allowed to be a 'sissy' then they're not MRA they're just the patriarchy that keeps oppressing men and imposing gender roles.
Alimony and child support are things I think are actually important, we can't send mixed messages that one type of inequality is accepted while others are not.

Let's say that military drafting was changed and both men and women were forced to do military service.
- What's the first thought that pops up in your head?

Oh, but would the women be safe? What about sexual harassment or rape?
The military is so harsh and violent, too harsh an environment for women, they're not suited for it.
It's male territory and forcing females into it just gives the men the upper hand..


Those were some of my first thoughts, but isn't all that just misogynist logic? Making women into victims.
At the same time, to achieve gender equality are we going to make the men more feminine or the women more masculine?

I'm asking this because I don't know the answer and I've been thinking about it a lot..

---------

I'm against sex work because I can't imagine someone willing to have sex with anyone.
We all have preferences and sex is based on attraction. It's also extremely intimate and there can be psychological issues related to it.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #253 on: April 15, 2013, 12:03:15 am
Let's say that military drafting was changed and both men and women were forced to do military service.
- What's the first thought that pops up in your head?

Oh, but would the women be safe? What about sexual harassment or rape?
The military is so harsh and violent, too harsh an environment for women, they're not suited for it.
It's male territory and forcing females into it just gives the men the upper hand..


Those were some of my first thoughts, but isn't all that just misogynist logic? Making women into victims.
At the same time, to achieve gender equality are we going to make the men more feminine or the women more masculine?

I'm asking this because I don't know the answer and I've been thinking about it a lot..

Yes, there would be concerns. Because of all the shit that's said before - because rape is still considered something that is partly the victim's fault.
There are lots of women in finnish military, but they sleep in separate rooms. (actually the old finnish word "war-man" has been exchanged with fighter to make it less sexist regarding that)
Feminism targets these things, too. Women feeling unsafe in military is the exact same thing as any workplace-bullying and harassment.
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Offline Ai

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #254 on: April 15, 2013, 01:29:49 am
Those were some of my first thoughts, but isn't all that just misogynist logic? Making women into victims.
In the US military at least, male on female rape or sexually-oriented abuse is terrifyingly common.

Quote
At the same time, to achieve gender equality are we going to make the men more feminine or the women more masculine?
I think we need to interpret things carefully here: 'Gender equality' is about having your opportunities and social status unaffected by your gender; Not having to X to be treated with respect and equity, nor having to not-X to be treated with respect and equity, for all X that are currently associated with gender roles.
'making men more feminine' or 'making women more masculine' would be about removing choices, not preserving them. Rather, our definitions of 'feminine' and 'masculine' might need a good evisceration so that our perceptions aren't distorted by them.  I'm personally inclined to define 'femininity' in terms of only the immediate and universal consequences of possessing that set of reproductive organs, and 'masculinity' in terms of only the immediate and universal consequences of possessing the other possible set of reproductive organs. (Unfortunately biology is not actually that simple as to offer two completely dichotomous possibilties. intersex, transgender, and transsexual individuals may present a huge obstacle to defining things so simply.)


Quote
I'm against sex work because I can't imagine someone willing to have sex with anyone.
That's like being against homosexuality "because all homosexuals are pedophiles".

Sex work (often with people you have no particular attraction to) != being willing to have sex with -anyone-
It's a business transaction -- you won't do business with just -anyone-, I hope, there has to be an implication of some level of trustworthiness.

There are sex workers who blog frankly about their experiences. Some common points I noticed:
* People are more human and relateable than you think
* Sex is actually not a big deal, and frequently hilarious. It's intimate, yes, but any meaning you attach to it beyond that is just meaning YOU attach to it,  quite possibly to the detriment of your sanity and sexual health.  Sex workers are largely over their hangups and psychological issues relating to sex, unlike virtually everyone else.
* The government makes it hard to do sex work in a sane way, due to heavy (60%+ in some cases!) taxation and regulation. Hard for the workers to find customers in a straightforward way, hard for the customers to find workers, and hard for the workers to hold customers to account.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #255 on: April 15, 2013, 06:43:22 am
I'm against sex work because I can't imagine someone willing to have sex with anyone.
That's like being against homosexuality "because all homosexuals are pedophiles".

Uhm, how is that even remotely the same thing?
And if you get to pick and choose who you sell to, then any benefits --  like providing sex to people unable to get it on their own due to handicap or appearance -- that sex trade provides is gone.

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #256 on: April 15, 2013, 07:24:22 am
Just dumping this here.

Sometimes I wonder why Feminism isn't just called Gender Equality.



I'm against sex work because I can't imagine someone willing to have sex with anyone.
That's like being against homosexuality "because all homosexuals are pedophiles".

Uhm, how is that even remotely the same thing?
And if you get to pick and choose who you sell to, then any benefits --  like providing sex to people unable to get it on their own due to handicap or appearance -- that sex trade provides is gone.
I think what he means is that's sort of a silly reason to be opposed to it.
What if I said I was opposed to garbage collectors because I can't imagine someone being willing to touch everyone's trash every day?
That doesn't mean there won't still be garbage collectors, and it doesn't mean there shouldn't be garbage collectors. Only that I do not want to be a garbage collector.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 07:34:29 am by CrazyMLC »

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #257 on: April 15, 2013, 07:45:24 am
Well, the problem is people do anything for money.

That's why it's illegal to sell your organs, not because I can't imagine anyone willing to do it.. but because money might force people to do it against their will.
It's easy to sell sex because you don't need education or a special skill set, which makes it an easy trap to fall into.

Just because someone is willing to do something for money doesn't mean they want to do it or that it would be healthy for them..

Offline CrazyMLC

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #258 on: April 15, 2013, 07:52:57 am
You can say people may be forced into it, but I'd personally starve before going down that rabbit hole. And there are homeless shelters to go to if you really can't support yourself.

Although, if you really, truly can't find any other job, why deny a chance to make some sort of living to people who need it? I mean if someone goes into the sex trade to try to support themselves, that's obviously not a good life decision. Unfortunately, as far as I know bad life decisions generally aren't illegal. (Unless, you know, they conflict with the liberties or safety, etc, of others.)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 07:55:11 am by CrazyMLC »

Offline Ai

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #259 on: April 15, 2013, 09:39:42 am
I'm against sex work because I can't imagine someone willing to have sex with anyone.
That's like being against homosexuality "because all homosexuals are pedophiles".

Uhm, how is that even remotely the same thing?
And if you get to pick and choose who you sell to, then any benefits --  like providing sex to people unable to get it on their own due to handicap or appearance -- that sex trade provides is gone.

Perhaps this analogy will be more understandable:

"It's like being opposed to the sky "because it's orange""

IOW, it's not merely a silly reason, it's a false premise. The sky ISN'T orange, homosexuals AREN'T particularly prone to pedophilia, and sex workers are not obligated to sex up 'anyone' who'll pay. They HAVE control over who they have sex with. Whether they fail to usefully exercise that control because they're preoccupied with concern for their financial situation is their responsibility.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:43:45 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.