Big boobed characters in video games

[ptoing]

I agree with you there. Also it is kinda ironical that people who say they are all for equality call their movement feminism. I think focus on one gender is silly. It might be that women have it harder in some regards, but there are cases in which men get the short end of the stick, and saying all this is due to patriarchy is stupid, because you can attribute everything to it if you wanted to.

Like how women atm usually get custody: This is because of patriarchy enforcing the view that women should tend to the children.
If it was the other way round I am sure some would say: The patriarchy is shafting women by taking away custody rights.

This is not a sound way to argue.

[Helm]

I don't know... we are the only animal with such extensive culture work and a sense of history and complex language. I do not think it's silly to insinuate the power of community over the power of biology as far as gender roles go.

[ptoing]

I am sure that culture plays a certain role in it. But I also doubt that a couple of 1000 or 10000 years of culture can counter 100000s or millions of years of evolutionary pressure and natural selection.

[Helm]

Well, not counter, but comment and contrast and complexify. Look at what human beings have done in 5,000 years as opposed to other animals in... forever.

You're a bit to rigid on a point that in philosophy and sciene is wiiide open, is what I'm hinting at.

[ptoing]

Other animals have not done shit in forever because they fit their niche. There is no reason to change if you are adapted brilliantly.

What we have done in the last 5000 years is due to using our intellect and science. Which is how humans fit into their environment, by molding it to their needs (and also fucking it up). I do not think that I am being rigid at all when I hold the point that both nature and nurture play significant roles in human development as well as gender roles.

[Ymedron]

My theory:
Feminism comes from the fact that females have gotten the shorTER end of the stick, therefore it would be difficult to get anywhere if the movement started out as "equalism." Females have been the driving force behind this movement at the start, and thus they focused on those whom they knew were damaged by the situation the most - themselves.

ALSO the fact that if the whole movement was hijacked by males wanting better treatment, it might well become so that males aren't damaged by the situation (aka there isn't any "you have to be masculine bluh bluh") but females still have the same shit going on for them as they did before.

[Helm]

The patriarchy definitely damages males as the male ideal is impossible for even the most hot blooded male. But of course women, gay and trans and misc other sexual identities get the worst of it.

Sven, I am saying you might be overstating the important of nature over nurture and I don't know how up and up you are on the science. That lengthy article rebutting a different feminist isn't much, for me. Also there is philosophy tied into all of this and culture studies... it's a lot of work to keep current. Let's just remind ourselves to not be very certain about these things and seek capable people-filters that can explain it to us in clear ways in the future.

[ptoing]

Yeah, I see where you are coming from and I do agree to some degree. The problem I have is when you get bigotry such as in the case where some woman cut her husband's penis off, and this was subsequently joked about on US TV by a bunch of celebrity women. If it was the other way, the behaviour would be deemed highly offensive and inappropriate. I by no means agree with a lot what MRA people say, I want equal rights for everyone, but I also do not want radicalism and bigotry, not matter from which direction.

Helm: agreed.

[Ymedron]

Ah yeah that's not cool at all. Joking about violence toward either gender is hideous. It just hurts everyone's case, as those who hold extremist views get lumped together with everyone who holds vaguely related (but more sensible) views.
Insulting a bigot about his/her appearance (such as weight) is highly inappropriate as well.

[ptoing]

Indeed, people should be called out on their behaviour and ideas and not on their appearance or other things they had no real say in.