AuthorTopic: Big boobed characters in video games  (Read 95664 times)

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #160 on: January 25, 2013, 03:25:09 am
Reading the comments vs the dev comments (Which I bet would have been a lot less honest if their companies were the ones asking their opinion) makes me frankly very depressed and powerless.
I guess these feelings of helplessness are pretty common, since you can see everywhere females (and feminists) getting silenced by this.

And yes it is silencing to constantly go "but it's not a problem!" :l


EDIT: Also, found this. http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/40932009413/emaretto-submitted-i-think-joe-keatinge
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 04:48:34 am by Ymedron »
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Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #161 on: January 25, 2013, 10:42:57 am
"Not THIS shit again", seems to be how those women feel, how the people in the comments feel, how people commenting on the comments feel.

Take a look at what "THIS" is made out to represent in all cases. Is it accurate? Can you spot any misrepresentations or unfair grouping? Beyond this veil of straws, perhaps lies a furthered understanding of the different points of views.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #162 on: January 25, 2013, 11:06:55 am
To me they were saying "Im so fucking tired of being treated this way", while the commenters were saying "women should just shut up and leave games to men". I think that's a very stark message, though not an uncommon one.
Not sure what you are saying there, though.
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Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #163 on: January 25, 2013, 12:23:01 pm
That's not the impressions that I got at all.

First, I thought the views of those eight were pretty relaxed, overall. They immediately recognized that the statue was tasteless, and odd, and mostly stayed on that topic. A few implied that some men actually see women the same way they saw/analysed the statue, or that the statue encouraged such views. Others implied that it was simply a bad move on part of the publisher, and insulting to women and men alike. It was a poor move to alienate female gamers like that, and it's a poor move to do it in general. No one advocated censorship.

Out of the people commenting, I didn't see any vehemently defending the statue and idea that women are in fact just pleasure torsos. In fact, no one really talked much about the statue, but instead were there to talk about other things. For certain, not all of the people commenting said the same thing. Some people seem to feel that the views of the women was needless, because most had already agreed that the statue was tasteless and it had been discussed to death elsewhere. Some saw the article as a way to bring a shit storm and thus ad revenue, and blamed a guy named Patrick (actually, a lot of people seemed to say this). Some people were slamming misogynists preemptively. Some people urged for civilized discussion, but dared not to hope for it. Some thought it was a good and relevant article.   Some people wanted to rant about equality in gaming in general and saw this article as their chance. A few were offended because they thought the OP women had implied that men hold such a shallow view of women. Some thought the statue wasn't a problem at all, because _insert usual arguments_ (most already addressed by the OP females), and the women were overreacting (even though they had been asked to write a blurb). There were more opinions, if someone cares to expand.

I don't think summarizing the comment section as "women should just shut up and leave games to men" is accurate, though similar viewpoints were expressed. Actually, were anyone saying that women shouldn't do games at all? I only skimmed through 10 pages.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:49:06 pm by Arne »

Offline Helm

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #164 on: January 25, 2013, 12:31:21 pm
Quote
Some people seem to feel that the views of the women was needless, because most had already agreed that the statue was tasteless and it had been discussed to death elsewhere.

I wonder if you see how this is sexist?

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #165 on: January 25, 2013, 12:39:13 pm
Quote
By yelling about something offensive, we're making a case that offensive marketing is unacceptable. By not yelling, we're giving silent consent to continuing crappy and cheap marketing choices.
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For my part, yes, I found it offensive, it was “the straw that broke the camel’s back”
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When I see the same people who I saw march for Jill, whose heart sank when they heard the news of her death ask me why this torso statue is "such a big deal," I don't even know how to begin to explain to them how they've come so close to the right thing, yet they sit so far from it.
I don't see how they are being relaxed other than writing in a calm, collected tone.
Meanwhile, comments...

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Not a single opinion that it's simply a stupid statue no one gives a fuck about, just eight paragraphs about how hateful, sexist and misogynistic the video game industry is.
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Giant Bomb is my number one stop for extremist feminist propaganda.
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Hey cool, more Kotaku-level clickbait bullshit from Klepek. About a subject that was slightly crass, definitely out-of-touch, and a shade misogynistic, yet "DONT CALL HIM GABEN - Patrick Tricky Scoops Kleptok" decided it was worth posting another one of his "look at me I'm so advanced with my views about the patriarchy".--
(on the first page of the comments, the next pages are a bit better. :l A bit.)

Edit: Also, I'd like to note that negative comments are always more visible than positive ones. It's the way human psyche works, and Im really disappointed in general that the first comments are just that, silencing people and using the word feminism as a slur.

Edit:
Oh hey nevermind, more fuckery:
Quote
But this sexism angle has got to be toned down. There is nothing sexist about this figurine. Yes it's a little crass and obvious and cheap but it's not sexist. At all. It just isn't.
8l
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:43:02 pm by Ymedron »
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Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #166 on: January 25, 2013, 01:29:43 pm
Ymedron> I never said there wasn't any angry comments, so I don't know what picking quotes are going to accomplish. I said that the comment section had more diversity in opinion than you let on, and it still stands. Some people were rude in some ways, some in others, some not at all, but you can't apply an "OR gate" to these opinions and so you have a super villain to attack.

And I said, pretty relaxed, overall. I could counter pick quotes, but I'm not going to.


Helm> I wonder if you can imagine ways it isn't.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #167 on: January 25, 2013, 01:36:33 pm
I guess Im just tired of getting told that my feelings and views don't matter and that I need to get out of the discussion? To me it certainly sounds like you are defending the viewpoint that everyone needs to shut up about sexism in games and whatnot.

I respect and admire you as an artist but I can't accept your viewpoint on this.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #168 on: January 25, 2013, 01:47:15 pm

Helm> I wonder if you can imagine ways it isn't.

I can but that would require for me to give the benefit of the doubt to repeat offenders. So let's not kid ourselves. Something like sexism in an industry cannot be 'discussed to death' as long as the problem still exists. A toy statue of a mutilated female torso with boobs by a publisher that had in their codebase the term 'Feminist Whore' and whose female zombies pose seductively in swimsuits while their body is decaying... is a new thing, it didn't exist before. It requires a new conversation. Those that have 'discussed it to death' simply do not want to discuss it anymore, which is fine and they can spend their time as they wish, but they should stay silent then, not rally to decree the input by the women developers on the issue is needless.

Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #169 on: January 25, 2013, 02:03:38 pm
Ymedron> My sincerest apologies. With these last posts, I was merely hoping for some interesting mind-bending exercises to happen, but now people might believe that I agree with the bulk of those comments instead. Sorry about that. I do agree that that is a pretty depressing comment section. I do see bright patches though, and gray.

And if you think I believe that women should shut up, I may have grossly misrepresented myself. As previously mentioned, I was rather hoping that they'd make their voices heard and tastes visible in a way which reaches and grabs people effectively.


Helm> I'm inclined to agree. I just wondered if you could do it.

Edit: Guro has been around for quite some time, but perhaps this is its first time in the gaming related limelight.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 02:08:11 pm by Arne »