Big boobed characters in video games

[ptoing]

One thing to jengy. Are you sure you are not confusing the idea of feminism with what sex-negative feminists are spouting? They are a pretty small but very vocal group.

[Arne]

Aforementioned article

http://kotaku.com/5926542/borderlands-2-doesnt-want-you-cracking-jokes-about-this-character

I went there to chuckle at the supposed malcontent, but found the comments to be pretty diverse in opinion, and some of them quite insightful. Someone or several pointed out, and I paraphrase, that doing a manifestly fat character is a sort of extreme which can thus be clearly compartmentalized (away from the rest of the supermodels) as "that character which they used to show diversity".

[Seiseki]

As a side note, I was actually happy to see that wardrobe-lady design... until I went to the kotaku page.
Comments full of players bitching and whining and moaning. It's like they absolutely had to have everything conform to their needs. Like there wasn't a single character they were happy with because of the developers adding someone who wasn't to their tastes.

*throw hands in the air*

I'm telling you, everything gets so much worse when people are jerks..

Speaking of jerks, League of Legends is a good game to look at because it has a crazy amount of playable characters and new ones get added monthly.
But not a single female character is ugly, old or overweight, while the same thing can't be said about the male characters.

Also, I quote from that kotaku article:

BUT I wont buy any Gearbox game anymore because:

"In designing one of Borderlands 2's characters, Ellie, Gearbox wanted to build "an independent female character who looked the exact opposite of how most females tend to be represented in games"."
They obviously gave in to the shit on the internet and slowly start to lose focus on their target audience. It starts with this and ends in a game totally different to what the players wanted. With developers like that, I think this is the end of Borlderlands.

I guess it shows how male consumers takes privilege for granted..
*facepalm*

[Ymedron]

Arne, perhaps their comments changed since I last visited. It was several months ago, way before christmas. I certainly don't remember anyone actually saying anything nice about her.

There certainly were threats of "Im not gonna buy this game if they do this!" e_e


(ps, Seiseki, I'm thankful for the change in your attitude! Though I don't know how to better express what im saying, it's nice to see someone who actually started looking at things in a different way than how they started out..?)

[Arne]

Ymedron> I figured so. It usually happens. Jerks post, people point out somewhere that jerks are posting. People try to bring balance, I get there wondering what the fuzz is about.

Seiseiki>  Uhuh. It shows what that particular consumer is feeling, and the ones bothering to make similar comments. His slippery slopey argument leads me to believe he's a troll. I'm inclined to think that guys like that is as entitled to precious feedback as anyone else (i.e. not). Then again I don't release AAA games and have no reason to keep an eye on demographics.

And I don't think what makes some females uncomfortable, in regards to the common representation of the female physical form, is the lack of ugly, overweight old female characters. It's the lack of more subtle variation in form which might be present on their own bodies, but is totally absent in games. This is not a problem for me, because there are plenty of bald space marines in games (now imagine me as an 9 foot tall hulk, hunched over a tiny iMac keyboard).

[Seiseki]

(ps, Seiseki, I'm thankful for the change in your attitude! Though I don't know how to better express what im saying, it's nice to see someone who actually started looking at things in a different way than how they started out..?)

Well, I've come to realize that as a tool, the privilege concept is useful.   
Because otherwise I'm just gonna see my own perspective, and it's tough to realize your own perspective is skewed.
In this case it's also important to see yourself as a member of a larger group. It's something I've never really done and hence my initial resistance to the idea.
Which in turn becomes kinda self-contradictory, because the aim is for people to be seen as individuals. It's a bit like fighting fire with fire, but I'm convinced that it's necessary.

@Arne, yeah, there's definitely an entitlement factor in consumers today, but combined with sexist/racist/homophobic views it becomes a much bigger problem.
I really think we need the old, ugly and fat women in games to counter the whole "all women in games are sexualized" because otherwise consumers will continue to expect it, demanding consumers will demand it.

[Helm]

Oh. I do have a fully formed opinion on ideal breast size. It's (B+C+C)/3. I've been fine tuning the formula for ages. Looking at the thread title... if I were to forcibly impose this personal ideal of mine upon the masses, would I... be the good guy?

Why would you be the good guy for enforcing any arbitrated standard of beauty?

Jengy> Artists have always been straddling the loosely defined fence that is moral responsibility and creative freedom (How many people did I offend, or entertain with my FSM painting?). I don't think anyone can define that boundary clearly, but it's clear that it's moving. I wouldn't consider creating a work which describes the exotic negros and their practical use as labor, like I might have been more inclined to do a few hundred years ago, and probably could have done more or less unquestioned.

How do you feel about your girth of personal projects that you display on the internet where most female characters wear panties? I am not attacking you with this question, I really would like to know the throught process behind that. It's not just one or two pictures.

[Seiseki]

Why would you be the good guy for enforcing any arbitrated standard of beauty?

Because if big boobs are offensive, than a standardized average size wouldn't be...
If we're only talking breast size we miss all the other important details though, like posing, clothing, role, body type, etc.

[Helm]

You might be missing my point, or you might be joking, but I'd rather appear a bit of an idiot and restate clearly than let it slide because this is serious stuff:

Big boobs or small boobs being an enforced (even passively) standard of beauty by males, for the benefit of the male gaze, are equally sexist. The problem is who is doing the judging and how, not what standard they want to enforce.

[Seiseki]

I was under the impression that the breast size would be enforced, not for the sake of male gaze, but for the sake of being average and not on the extreme end.

But yeah, I can't take such an idea seriously and I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to

Also, to further highlight how women are portrayed in video games and the male gaze.
If a male character is ugly, old, has a nasty scar, overweight, has a burnt face, then he has personality, he's interesting, unique, cool, morbid, scary, dark, etc.
If a woman displays any of those traits she's simply unattractive and nothing more.