AuthorTopic: Big boobed characters in video games  (Read 95660 times)

Offline Ai

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #100 on: January 21, 2013, 12:07:16 am
Also it's very hard to ask that kind of question (.. 'both sexes' 'or none') in a way that doesn't alienate bisexual and/or transgender people. Just to be clear, yes I am offended. But more importantly this is another example of privilege: heterosexual privilege. The context of your question implies that bisexual and transgender people don't exist, and this implication largely passes without challenge.
All these different factors and privileges that can be involved highlight how confusing and difficult trying to say things in a fair and accurate way can be.  I say that to highlight that the question of how feminist you -actually- are, is certain to have a much more complex answer than any you have yet arrived at.

I'm Sorry and I'm not following you at all on this one..
I thought bisexual people wouldn't have a specific preference due to liking both sexes and transgender people would identify with one of the sexes or none.
(sorry if this is offending)

Well, it seems I may have misunderstood what you said.

I really just wanted a platform with which to say there's more to feminism, and in particular to privilege, than the obvious things you think of when you think of equality; working out how feminist you are is something that takes a lot of re-assessment before you can get an accurate picture. Because my perception was that you too easily said "yeah, I'm acceptably feminist".

I don't actually care much if you offended me (that's why I tried to move on quickly); It's just comforting to be able to say that I'm offended re: bisexual erasure in a context where it won't be outright dismissed.

re transgender: Is that what you meant by 'none'? In that case you are more subtle than I  :)

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drawing stuff like this

Not sure if serious. These seem to be parodical*, on rather the same level as this character  . I think the most common-denominator type sexualization of men for women's eyes is probably yaoi (a genre of manga), which IIRC has femme-y guys acting somewhat like stereotyped women, with plenty of gratuitous posing but not so much ridiculous posing. Someone posted a page that could very well be from a yaoi manga earlier in this thread.

* as if the username 'themarysue' wasn't enough of a hint  :lol:

Personally, the posing and expressions found in that image repel me equally whether applied to males or females. It's just 'absurd, why would you do that, who would actually find that sexy?'. I guess possibly people go 'Well I don't know what's -generally- sexy, I should take cues from playboy/playgirl and sexualized comic imagery' and then take those cues up to 11. Which just implies that the problem is an elitist and alienated culture surrounding sex and sexuality. I feel like I'm talking in circles here.

Quote from: Ymedron
I don't think people who are attracted to women have such singular tastes either - if this equal sexualization took place, purely in the interest of satisfying the entire audience, then they would have to have all the different body types present. People can like muscular, chubby or thin women, just like they can like muscular, chubby or thin men.
cf. harem manga. (not sure if there is a equivalent with males -- possibly certain types of shoujo manga.). I can't think of any western examples at all, though I'm sure someone can correct that.

If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #101 on: January 21, 2013, 06:36:23 am
Well, there is harem manga for both sexes..?
It's hard to talk about this since I myself am asexual and don't even experience sexual attraction hurrdurr. :C!

It seems anime and manga are a lot better at being geared for women, though it still has fairly extreme objectification in some of the series. I think each series having pretty much one author rather than being a property of the publishing company that gets its writers and drawers changed periodically has a lot to do with it. (A western comic publisher is a lot more wary about trying anything new, while a manga publisher gets so many potential comics that they can allow them to try out new things, and just let the commercial selection take its' course.)
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Offline Helm

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #102 on: January 21, 2013, 07:52:40 am
It's near impossible to make art that touches on human drama without having sexist tropes in there. Because they exist in real life, not just in depictions of us in the media. But the thing is about meta-context, does the artist know what they're doing by using these tropes or are they just carrying on the cliches to appeal to the 'hah, I know this, therefore I like it!' reflex of the audience.

People can't help what they find sexy, we are informed by culture and kinks are kinks. Nobody is calling out for people to stop finding superheroines sexy in those absurd poses, if they do find them sexy already. That audience exists. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be criticism on the metacontextual level about what these images mean. Brave artists give audiences more than the bargained for, successful artists give audiences exactly what they asked for while making them think it's more than they bargained for.

Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #103 on: January 21, 2013, 05:30:04 pm
Just stumbled on this article by a HR person at EA:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2013/01/18/women-and-video-gamings-dirty-little-secrets/

TL;DR; as I gather: Not enough girl nerds.

Offline Ymedron

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #104 on: January 21, 2013, 06:11:24 pm
The comments seem to tell a different story - female developers getting turned away from AAA companies in favor of similarly skilled men, subtle (or not so) hostility (references toward the dead island ad with the headless bikini torso?)
I like the way she kept telling that women are the one who need to change. As usual, isn't that the problem in every place? Why can't women stop being so uptight and stop complaining!

Yeah.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #105 on: January 21, 2013, 06:30:37 pm
Quote
TL;DR; as I gather: Not enough girl nerds.

Seriously, that is what you gathered as the core of the issue?

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #106 on: January 21, 2013, 06:52:04 pm
A lack of diversity is always a problem in any company or organization, even this forum..
I don't trust that article though, especially coming from a huge corporation like EA, it's hard to speak freely about an industry you are a part of, especially as a minority.

I like the way she kept telling that women are the one who need to change. As usual, isn't that the problem in every place? Why can't women stop being so uptight and stop complaining!

I think that is her being diplomatic and in the end it is women that need to apply for the jobs by their own choice and not someone elses.
Although, a lot can be done to ease that choice and make it more appealing.

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Rather than blame the majority just because they are the majority, I believe the solution starts with us women.
Isn't that like removing all responsibility from a privileged group?
I want to believe that but damn, helm you have ruined me :(
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 07:09:37 pm by Seiseki »

Offline Arne

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #107 on: January 21, 2013, 07:03:40 pm
Maybe you misunderstood, perhaps deliberately (if the confrontational "seriously" is any indication). I attempted to summarize the article, not my own opinion.

As for my own opinion, it is not fully formed, because I'm not fully informed. I can can entertain ideas of why things are the way they are, if you'd like. If many groups of females had started game companies in the 80's and 90's because they thought computers and Dungeons and Dragons was awesome, things would've looked different. How about that? (It's a sort of truism, of course.)

« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 07:13:50 pm by Arne »

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #108 on: January 21, 2013, 07:12:14 pm
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female developers getting turned away from AAA companies in favor of similarly skilled men
It's true.
You can be turned down for a job if you have the EXACT same skill set.
There are many other factors to hiring.
The interview, portfolio, budget, personality and sometimes even Myers Briggs type are all considered.

Team conflict is the number one killer of games internally.
NST (nintendo of america) spent close to a million dollars on a project that was canceled not too long ago because of unresolved team conflict.
Most employers will Google your name, and any screen names, check your face book, read your comments etc.
If they find anything that they think shows that you might not play well with others, which is completely subjective, they will not hire you.

If you're applying for a programming position there is almost always an on the spot programming test.
Some are very detailed with difficult questions.
The structure of the answers you give matters, whether they are correct or not.
You could give a wrong answer, but if they like it more than the persons next to you, that actually got it correct, they will hire you over them.

Where I studied almost half of each artist class are women.
While each programming class only had about 0-8 women.
The drop out rate was 50%, including everyone, so the numbers could go even lower.
On the programming side, those girls that stayed almost all of them became team leads (producers) worked on successful projects and were hired as producers at decent companies with decent starting salaries.
A few work as devs but it was definitely more rare.
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Seiseki

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Re: Big boobed characters in video games

Reply #109 on: January 21, 2013, 07:19:04 pm
If many groups of females had started game companies in the 80's and 90's because they thought computers and Dungeons and Dragons was awesome, things would've looked different. How about that?

This is why gender roles are bad..
Women were dealt a shitty hand from the start, guys took all the fun and nerdy stuff, while women were left with everything the men didn't want to do.
As if that isn't bad enough, now men are taking over the womens space, just look at the bronies ;)