Big boobed characters in video games

[Ymedron]

The number or steps is less than you might think.
With dedicated focus you could be making a game within a couple of weeks or months.
There is a massive amount of material out there for free.
You should make games as you want them to be.
If you, or anyone, needs links or wants to ask questions I am more than happy to provide.

Skipping all the argumentation because I frankly get disoriented and my point gets diluted the more its argued. Its nigh impossible to make anyone change their mind, especially those who have already made their mind as me and many of the others who comment on this thread. :C

I guess the main thing preventing me from making a game is lack of solid idea, lack of programming skill and lack of game art skill (which is vastly different than just general art skill.) Hoping to rectify this, but there is so much to learn on all sides that it becomes a terrifying task.
It'd probably be a better idea to make a new thread just for guidance on starting out on games?

[ErekT]

Hoping to rectify this, but there is so much to learn on all sides that it becomes a terrifying task.

Everything's easy if you break it down into small enough chunks I think. Try and avoid looking at the big picture too much, you'll just end up fretting and procrastinating and never getting any stuff done. Instead, just start somewhere and set a goal that you can wrap your arms around in say, a day or two? When that's done, set a new small and cozy goal for yourself. And then another one etc.

On sexualization: I find it distracting and cheesy in most media. For games; less distracting, just cheesy and silly. Who the hell is able to get a boner from a set of digital boobs anyway?

[ptoing]

Who the hell is able to get a boner from a set of digital boobs anyway?

I am willing to bet plenty of people. Arousal is not just about the visual input, but about whether or not what you see and then think about triggers some sexual thoughts/fantasies. Whether something is digital, a painting, a sculpture, a photo or the real thing does not really matter in a lot of cases.

[ErekT]

I agree with that, though game art for me is either too abstract, too stylized, or too close to the uncanny valley to awaken any primal instincts in me I guess. It's just as well!

[Helm]

Actually this thread is full of opinions that can easily be changed where the parties supporting these opinions to admit that their opinions are based solely/mostly on personal reflection and perhaps some empyrical testimony form their peer circle and involve little no proactive gender study.

This is how artists tend to think. They sit in a room and they work thoughts out and when they think they're coherent enough they test them out in their circles and if everything's fine, they move on. Your heart is in the right place if you even have a coherent opinion on matters of sex and gender, but that doesn't mean you've necessarily tested your opinions in the right way.

These are opinions that have not been challenged on even ground. They're enforced by opinion bias (what, you think your peer circle is going to challenge you on your chauvinism? They probably chose you partly because you float the same way in those issues to begin with). There's male (usually white, usually middle class, usually straight) privilege at work.

I believe most people in this thread are open-minded enough to reconsider an opinion if it's challenged on even ground. One woman in a predominately male nerd forum  fighting a losing battle is not even ground. It is not her - or anyone's really - responsibility to educate us. There are endless internet resources on the issue of feminism (to which all this deeply relates). I can suggest this for an intro http://www.shakesville.com/2010/01/feminism-101.html See how much of this is old news to you and how much strikes you as preposterous (the surest sign of unchallenged male privilege).


Edit: no post of mine in this thread will be without an image


This is how a female fighter rests after their loss. Remember, it's not just what the characters wear (though here it's clearly also the case) but how they conduct themselves to please the male gaze.

[Lachie Dazdarian]

I could spend whole day punching holes in that feminism link. What does obesity has to do with feminism? The woman obviously has issues with her weight and then claims society has issues with weight because it imposes (is contaminated with) unrealistic standards on looks, specifically on women. I stopped reading there. Obesity is a complex problem that needs to be dealt with (not ignored or even celebrated), and the problems about it are only partially related to it degrading someone's appearance. Do you see it in the animal world? But I digress...

As much as women are objectified as sex....well, objects....equally men are simplified and reduced to alpha males, self-assured, ridiculously muscular and generally...to scarface badasses.

I claim men are the object of shallow and unrealistic ideals forced by the general taste of gaming audience (of both sexes), equally as women, only of different nature.

[Conzeit]

I'll side with helm on this one. Not that I'm more sensitive than anybody, I've just been exposed to it from blogs of female comic artists. Let's face it both mediums threat females just as childishly

Ryu, you're misguided, believe it or not that Hayabusa with the cock armor and the buff guy in underpants are not made for girls, most girls dont actually want guys with impenetrable frowns and overgrown muscles, proof is that you like that beefcake stuff, beefcake is most often about power symbols for MEN, it's all about MEN.

I dont have the link right now but I got this all from a female blogger, she explained what I'm telling you right now, then she proceded to post an image of Batman as she would like to see him sexualized. Picture a batman with big puppy eyes, a suit with cleavage that shows his chest hair, and he's on all four legs with his butt poking out. Do you like that image? ok....that's how girls feel whenever they see a scantily clad girl in comics/games


This is a good example, this is what a over-sexualized male would look like, this is the difference between power fantasy and sexual fantasy. Keep in mind, these are just posed sexually, it'd make you feel a lot more uncomfortable if their costume followed suit

EDIT: Now, on the feminism link et all, while skimming I only saw equal threatment being proposed, but I still want to say I do not believe fenimism is any better than machism. Not because we're already equal but because emphasizing any side of the equation is just as bad.
The goals are keeping sexualization where it belongs (in material strictly aimed at tittilation) and equal oportunity, not to defend women from horrible men. I do believe there are women who become abusive to men as a response to the treatment they get and I dont think that helps at all.

Lachie: I agree with you that the alpha male ideal is pretty damn stupid...but I'm not sure I blame the ideals of game culture on women...

[Seiseki]

Aren't you just reversing the roles in that picture and sexualizing the men according to how females are sexualized currently?
I don't think that works, because  there's always been the gender roles of men being dominant, protective, confident which most female erotic novels seem to cater to.
The avengers image makes them submissive in a way that clashes with the gender roles.

Not that I'm a fan of gender roles, I'd rather they just disappear.
But everything we see today is based on those roles. Including video game characters.
(helms image kinda points to this..)

Apart from Street Fighter though, japanese games and anime has a lot of characters that are sexualized from a female perspective in a way that western media never does.
But it might just be their view on masculinity, which isn't quite as strict..

[random google image search for 'bishounen']

As much as women are objectified as sex....well, objects....equally men are simplified and reduced to alpha males, self-assured, ridiculously muscular and generally...to scarface badasses.
I claim men are the object of shallow and unrealistic ideals forced by the general taste of gaming audience (of both sexes), equally as women, only of different nature.

That's very true.
And both genders continue to uphold these ideals and gender roles.
But males are still the privileged ones, especially within the gaming industry. It's hard to deny, especially if you're a man.

[Arne]

The only thing which will change anything is if more women create the things they want to see. You certainly can't make laws about ass poses. And, raising awareness on blogs and whatnot is a fart in the hurricane of male sexuality.

But, I think the "portrayal of women in games" problem is absolutely trivial next to the treatment of female gamers and the rampant rudeness in online games in general. Replace that "offensive" fan service bar maid with a little NPC kid which follows you around and asks to see your vagina, tits or gtfo, then he keeps TK'ing you, etc.

I don't think one can do much about that problem either, anyways.

And yeah, Yaoi guys are very often tall and skinny with flowing hair.  I used to be active on a paintchat with a dominantly female user base, and they almost exclusively drew these kind of guys. There is however a Yaoi genre featuring chubby-muscular men.

[Conzeit]

haha good post Arne. I think both things are true but if we're gonna talk about wether the sexualization exists or not, better make the point clear, right?

Seiseki, that's pretty much true, but from what I gather it's not far from what women would favour.

atleast that's what I gather. I'm gonna be honest I'm just voicing someone else's point of view here

http://swegener.tumblr.com/post/18313058343/take-note-mr-dudes-are-sexualized-too-comic
that's one example.

I still cant find the batman with chest hair, but it's a lot like the Avengers poster.

The point here is that we realize and adknowledge when we're sexualizing women and when we're really drawing them as powerful  individuals, and then realize how awkward it might be for a woman to see a supposed "strong female character" when it's anything but.
The best way to show that is for us to see our male heros treated the way female "heros" are treated

and maybe this too http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=311