AuthorTopic: Might be of some interest to fans of either Zelda or the Cel-shaded look.  (Read 12217 times)

Offline Faceless

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Offline Kennethfejer

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looks quite cool.
wind waker is the best looking zelda game, if you ask me. i've never been a big fan of the semi realistic style, they've tried a couple of times.

Offline Mercury Rising

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How dare you!!  Wind Waker was an insult to the Zelda series.  If it wins one more award for graphics I am going to kill everyone in a 15 mile radius.  There have been so many better looking Cel-shaded games.   Ocarina of Time is the best Zelda game to date, the new one comming out on GC should be good but you never know.  Miyamoto is a god...

But, your entitled to your own opinion and llegaly I can't force you to change it.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2005, 12:28:34 am by BrotherInWar »
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Offline Xion

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Wind Waker was an insult to the Zelda series.
Phreaking madman. WW was preaking great.
Although the upcoming one does demolish all other Zelda games graphically, IMO.
Those screens look pretty interesting, and if my compy weren't so crappy, I'd download a Z64 rom so I could get that when it comes out.

Offline Faceless

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looks quite cool.
wind waker is the best looking zelda game, if you ask me. i've never been a big fan of the semi realistic style, they've tried a couple of times.

I'll have to agree with Kenneth on this one.

@BIW:
WW wasn't a failing to the Zelda series because of its graphics. WW's problem lay in it's length and difficulty.
And before I hear it, WW's graphics don't have to go hand in hand with a game designed for 7 year olds.

Offline Mercury Rising

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I never said its graphics where its only problem.  I was just stating I have seen Zelda WW get 8 awards for its graphics when there are much better looking cel-shaded game.  It got me ready to kill someone, that a lame game with ugly graphics won the award because of its title.  Graphics mean nothing to me, that’s why I still play games like Zelda OOT, The Legend Of Zelda on Nes, StarFox 64, Smash TV, Yoshis Safari, and Pokemon Snap. I still play them because of gameplay not graphics.  Would you want to play a movie realistic game where you just go to the store and buy eggs?
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Offline ptoing

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I have to say that i quit enjoyed WW, even tho the gameplay lacked a bit. It was too easy and had some streneous parts (esp towards the end). But it also had some really genius bosses and sequences. And calling the game ugly is just silly. And tell me one of those celshaded games that look better. I can't think of many celshaded games, which came out earlier and none of those looked better.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Xion

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Its  all in style. There is really no way to compare any of the cell-shaded games that come to mind such as Jet Grind(Set) Radio, Fear Effect, XIII, Okami (I think that's what it's called), and Zelda. They all have completely and utterly different styles which provoke different feelings among people. It's like comparing Salvadore Dali to Leonardo da Vinci; they were both artists, but they had styles that could not be compared to one another.

As for the gameplay of WW, It was awesome, but the sailing was tedious and the rewards didn't seem rewarding enough: Go through a dungeon to get a treasure chart that leads to 200 rupees that you'll never spend. It was also a bit short for me, but everything else had a tangy zip. The story was also one of the more coherent ones in the Zelda series to me.

Offline ptoing

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Heh, i forgot about Jet Grind Radio, that has a nice style and is quite a bit older, but XIII i did not like. :P
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Kennethfejer

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in terms of gameplay, the 2d zelda games were by far the best ones (legend of zelda & minish cap)
the cutie style also goes much better with zelda, then trying to make stuff look semi realistic..... and everyone says OOT was soo great... am i the only one who thought it was really boring ?
anyway, cell shading is just a great way of hiding a low poly count and low res textures, a problem i have with the new princess something game, mostly in the screenshots where link is riding though.

oh and jet grind radio, great game, i really enjoyed both of them.

Offline ptoing

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and everyone says OOT was soo great... am i the only one who thought it was really boring ?

Yeh, I also don't get what is so ace about OOT, nice game but i did not like the style at all, they could have pulled of something way nicer, a bit more in the style of the snes zelda. I played it on the Cube, got that special edition disc with 4 zeldas on it. Still have not finished it.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Mercury Rising

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And calling the game ugly is just silly.
No saying, "SMIGGLE DIGGLE OFNI OGNA BLOGNA OHNIP DRUNAS ODBEOT EAOT MIOY CHROUNCHY CHOACK!" is.  Now see the Cel-Shaded in this plugin of OOT I like.   Wind Waker made me sick, Veatiful Joe too...

(There is a hidden message in my sillyness.)
(In case you cant find it, its; "Smuggle Doggles Off Ogna Beach") (Rest is rambling)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2005, 02:13:29 am by BrotherInWar »
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Offline Schu

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Wow that's an interesting mod! I'm personally on my second run of Wind Waker (in the crayfish shirt xD) but rather put away Ocarina 'cause the Biggoron quest was pissing me off... Haven't played it in a while since I got Four Swords.

Lots of people complained about the boating in WW but I guess it's all according to one's taste. I like adventures so I spent more time wandering and fishing for treasure in the boat than I did saving Zelda (reminiscent of Skies of Arcadia except without the battle interruptions). And hey, it's fun to fish for a useless pot when you're really aiming for a triforce shard :D

Comparing both games though is like apples to oranges, really... For an N64 game, Ocarina ain't so bad, Ganon was pretty scary... The boss designs in WW though, I personally think they're incredibly beautiful (and frightening... some enemies too, like those shreiking zombies O_O).  But if Nintendo ever got struck by lightning and remade it in the WW style for Gamecube... That could be kind of cool. The scary leopard-print streetwalking fairies, though... I'll take giggling alien fish people anytime. OK, I'll stop rambling now.

Long live Zelda 2! (/me runs away)

Offline Xion

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Everything Schu said.

The only Zelda game I didn't like was Majora's Mask, due to the fact that they only gave you three days in which to perform the same thing over and over again. Actually, the game was good, and the dungeons were madly fun - it even had nice long sidequests - but I would have liked it alot more if I were given at least seven days. Just too painfully repetitive. Not to mention the fact that they put Clock town right in the middle of an otherwise large map. It should have been off to the side somewhere like in OOT, or maybe they could have even added an entirely new area called "Termina Plains" where there were small villages and houses scattered about with even more side quests to complete. The Goron's town cave place should have been more populous. Man, I might as well try making my own mod of MM, the way it should have been.

Oh, and some fun Ideas: http://web.telia.com/~u48508900/z1/zelda1.htm

Offline Faceless

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Oh, and some fun Ideas: http://web.telia.com/~u48508900/z1/zelda1.htm

Just checked the link out, looks interesting.

Offline goat

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Quote from: Schu
Long live Zelda 2! (/me runs away)

Zelda 2 is one of my favorites too.. I think we're in the minority :p
OH NO
typing ewith fdace

Offline crab2selout.png

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OOT is my favourite as it was the first one I played. The last boss fight is also one of the best boss fights I've ever had. The mood was just fucking awesome. I got so freaked out when your sword gets chucked by gannon, you're surrounded by fire and you gotta take him down with some bows 'n' arrows while Ganon's smashing the castle rubble. Haven't palyed it in years, though so OOT probably seems crappy by now.

Can't say I really cared for Z1, though, the random moving enemies REALLY got on my nerves. especially when you got to rooms where you're facing 7 or 8 darknuts that take off a couple hearts for each hit. Thank god, you don't have to deal with that kind of shit today. I really think you've gotta have nostalgia to enjoy Z1 if you're going through it for the first time now.

Z2 was also interesting although, like Z1, it's lacking if you're going to play it today. I really like how they decided to do the sequel in a different viewpoint. I'd actaully really like to see them try it again, except keep the viewpoint permanent so you don't have the RPG like overworld, and maybe include more of the dungeon mechanics from the original Z. Yeah, I really wish they would give it another shot. It'd jsut be another metroid-clone, but Metroid and Z have some major similarties anyways, so what's the harm?

WW wasn't all that enjoyable for me either. The boating was cool at first, but after a travelling for a while, it started getting real boring. There were a couple of cool moments, like doing the quests on windfall island(I'm not sure this is correct, but I mean the island with teh windmill) really got me into it, but the simple dungeons, bosses, and excessive travelling wore me down and broke my spirit. The combat was just stupid, too. I'd really like to slap the dumb fucker who thought that mapping a pwn everything jump-flip-pirouette-sideways-somerfault-kickflip-roudhouse kick/sword slash to a single button press would make the combat more interesting. It only made the darknut fights annoying and took the terror you might feelr out of any fight. After looking at the new Z videos I think they also kept in it, sigh.

Last thing that pissed me off about it was the final fight. When Gannon closed the curtain on Zelda, and went all monster-ape shit, I was, like, "This is fucking awesome!". Then the curtain was pulled back and I saw myself looking at some droppy, slack-jawed retard. http://www.zeldauniverse.net/z10.php?page=z10bosses Puppet gannon doesn't look so bad on taht page, but a picture can't do him justice. You really gotta take a look at P ganon in motion to get any idea of just how much I was let down. He looks plain retarded and has this look on his face like he's simultaneously trying to pass gas and a baby at the same time. I was utterly insulted when I first saw him.

As for the original post, it looks cool. I look forward to seeing the finished product to see if it looks as nice in motion. That zelda link someone posted is also quite interesting. I really like the sketches, 'specially that moblin. It's fucking adorable.

For anyone that read through it, what do you think about the authors thoughts on non-linearity, I'm more of a believer of the quasi non-linearity perfected in the metroid model where it appears non-linear because you aren't directed by explicit instructions, but actually isn't because of the layout of the land that seals off difficult sections by requiring upgrades to move ahead.

EDIT: Was messing with the URL to that zelda page and I found a bunch more semi-completed monsters and what looks like a fully rendered boss from Zelda2. The one with a horsehead. http://web.telia.com/~u48508900/z1/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2005, 11:31:19 pm by crab2selout.png »

Offline Xion

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I think Nonlinearity is one of the most monstrously wonderful things in videogames nowadays. I hate it when I feel pushed on through a game with no sense of freedom. At the start of a game, unless an area is blocked off for story reasons, you should most definately be able to explore it thoroughly. One of the worst things, I find, is when a game has insane potential, but it's madly killed due to the lack of freedom/nonlinearity.

And short games suck.

Offline Sawtooth

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This isn't really the right forum for serious gaming discussion.  I suggest that everybody leave this thread and go read a few game design textbooks.  Then spend a few months digging through insertcredit and the gamer's quarter, and then come back before you get too emo/postmodern.  Then we can all talk intelligently.

Quote
And short games suck.

I have just the game for you
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Offline Doomraider

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I see not one opinion on Z3 in this post =( I think LTTP was DEFINITLY the best Zelda by far!

Offline PyroPiranha

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This isn't really the right forum for serious gaming discussion.  I suggest that everybody leave this thread and go read a few game design textbooks.  Then spend a few months digging through insertcredit and the gamer's quarter, and then come back before you get too emo/postmodern.  Then we can all talk intelligently

That wasn't needed.  The forum is for pixel art, which is often directly linked to games.  And I have seen no arguing in this post, all constructive voicing of opinions...

Anyways, up to this point, my favorite is the Minish Cap...those little bastards are damn cute, and it was just cool seeing there little habitats.

Offline Xion

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I think all LA was the greatest of all, closely followed by Minish Cap and ALTTP. I played four swords for gamecube and it seemed pretty fun. I'd get it if I didn't want Baten Kaitos so badly. The Twilight Princess game looks awesome so far, but I just hope it has a nice story to match.

Offline Sawtooth

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This isn't really the right forum for serious gaming discussion blah blah

That wasn't needed.  The forum is for pixel art, which is often directly linked to games.  And I have seen no arguing in this post, all constructive voicing of opinions...

I don't see any arguing either, unless it is that I am arguing with you (omg!).  There's nothing wrong with discussing games casually, it's just that I cringe whenever I see something like "short games suck."  The general expertise of this forum is in art and graphic design (like the texture/cel shading hack this post was originally about), not in game design.

Speaking of which, that mod is sweet.  I wish my computer was powerful enough to play an n64 emulator in the first place.  The cel shading fits in a lot better than I thought it would.  The angular look actually fits in pretty well, kind of killer7-ish.

Also, that directory of pictures xion posted is a bunch of fan art by this guy.  He draws the most excellent panties I've ever seen.
rip ninjalicious

Offline Xion

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it's just that I cringe whenever I see something like "short games suck."

Ah, sorry. I guess that came out wrong. I meant it angers me when a game is really fun, but doesn't last nearly long enough (Beyond Good and Evil.) But, of course, I'd rather play an awesome five minute game than a terrible 80 hr one. I'd just rather the awesome game be a bit longer, or at least have some unlockables to play around with. I beat the aforementioned BG&E in 2 days, and then there was nothing left to do. It was fun while it lasted, but now it's just collecting dust.
That's what I meant to say. No offense to short games or short game lovers.

[edit]
Quote
...just the game for you

Holy freaking crap, it's a neverending install program.

...One that I've been running in the BG for about two hours.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 09:53:40 pm by Xion Night »

Offline Sawtooth

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Holy freaking crap, it's a neverending install program.

...One that I've been running in the BG for about two hours.

That's not installation, it's progress!

The whole thing is a satirical comment on the leveling-up grind that so many rpgs put you through (think early Dragon Quest games or mmorpgs)
rip ninjalicious

Offline Zulithe

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I totally loved MM and WW.

A lot of people I know IRL got turned off by the starting town in MM. It is kinda hard considering it is pretty much your first quest and those 3 days can go by awfully quick. I wasn't able to complete it until my third try, but after that I found the rest of the game about as difficult as other Zelda games (and just as fun, if not MORE fun than Ocarina of Time) Thankfully you get a song that slows down time fairly early which helps a lot. I believe people who hate MM are just the lazy ones who didn't stick with it long enough to let it win you over. :)

WW was a dramatic departure from the series in several ways, the most obvious being its visual style. I admit, I wouldn't want ALL Zelda games to look that way, but it was a nice change for once. I liked the style. It intends to look like a cartoon while you're playing it and it did that very well. I loved the concept of a Hyrule that instead of being 80% plains, it was 80% water and you traveled on a boat instead of a horse. I also liked the treasure hunting but it was very difficult to locate all of the chests (at least for me)

I don't know, I think some people are too hard on the Zelda series. It tries very hard to make each game unique and I admire that.

Offline Faceless

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I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't have seen this.
It's an early video of the project in action.
http://www.emutalk.net/attachments/high-resolution-textures-projects/24697-djipis-cel-zelda-mod-essai.zip?d=1116153079

Shame I don't have any N64 Roms... I would've liked to have given this project a test drive when it was done.