Harry Sullivan

[Khris_2]

Hey there, first post. Long time stalker, first time poster, but I've been (attempting) pixel art for a while now.

What I'd like to get critiqued on would be the following character sprite (if you couldn't tell by the topic title, his name is Harry).



On the left is the most updated version in which I've started cleaning up stuff and shading, on the right is some lines (with quite a bit of messiness in some areas that I'm pretty aware of). What I'm hoping to get is some good anatomy and clothing critique. When I say that, I basically mean I'm looking for some proper posing (he's got his hands in his pockets) and maybe some help with the folds and wrinkles in his clothes.

Before I go on I'll say straight up (to avoid any sort of accusations) that I used a sprite of Q from Street Fighter very loosely for obtaining a standard base size and getting some proportion down, and I used a sprite of Ryuji Yamazaki from The King of Fighters (not the exact sprite I used, but you get the picture) for a reference on the pose.

Anyways, moving right along. Some things you can go ahead and ignore are why there currently aren't small details (like buttons and the trench coat belt, etc) on the most recent version, and colors. The game I'm making this for will be in black 'n' white, so unless it's an issue with the shading itself (I could probably use help with that, too), it's probably a pointless issue to bring up (but totally feel free to make an edit of how he would look with color, if you'd like).

And to avoid making another post, I might as well ask for some critique on my avatar. Even I'm confused on what I was doing with the back of the bandana. :/

It's Ralf Jones from The King of Fighters in some sort of chibi style.

[Meta|Fox]

Cool, thats good line art. anatomy seems fine (though abit super heroish). but i cant really crit you on it.

One thing though. about the shades of grey you started shading with. Theres too many of them and there contrast with each other is abit low. i see you trying to AA the shades together abit but a small amount of dithering (nothing to major) would give the same effect.

Before I go on I'll say straight up (to avoid any sort of accusations) that I used a sprite of Q from Street Fighter very loosely for obtaining a standard base size and getting some proportion down, and I used a sprite of Ryuji Yamazaki from The King of Fighters (not the exact sprite I used, but you get the picture) for a reference on the pose.

Ha, no one will accuse you over that. using references in art is extremely commen. it would be an issue if you line traced or something butyou clearly didn't.

[Khris_2]

It's been a few days but here's a bit of an update. I've been working on this opening animation for him and I think I've finally got something down, though the coat ends are gonna have to be reworked when I get to the final steps of this. You guys have any suggestions on animating (or maybe examples) that sort of thing?

[Xion]

When animating fabric, remember that fabric flows from the source of movement in 'ripples.' As you have it now, it looks like the bottom of the jacket is leading the rest of it in motion. Instead, it should flow in a wave from the hands/waist down and flip up at the end before coming to rest. Very fluid animation, though.
I noticed that in his initial stance, the jacket seems to go from thin to really offset from the torso beneath the < hand...if that made sense. I see what it's supposed to look like, but I think it'd look better it the transition from above the hand to below the hand was a bit smoother.

His tie should go out from his body a bit when he's going back in the animation, unless it's extremely starched.

'Side from those things, this is lookin' pretty sweet.

[Godslayer]

The transition between pocketed hands and ready hands seems too slow. My advice:
Cut out some of the frames andtake a larger jump, between hands just out of pocket, to hands in position, with a blurry type movement indicator in the ready frame.

Directly after he raises his hands, for added realism, they shouldnt immediately get to the ready position. When you snap your hands, you usualy go a little bit over the limit of what you where shooting for for a split second, and instantly your hands jerk back into the proper postition. I think you should hav it go- hands fully out of pocket- blurred path of hands on one frame, with hands ending up a little higher than the hands of the final stance- then final stance, where the hands go down a pixel.

[Khris_2]

Awesome, most helpful comments on this so far. I'll have to go back and see if I can fix this guy and start cleaning him up.

EDIT: Crap, I just realized something. I have no idea how to properly draw a blurred frame, though I know exactly what you're talking about. Any tutorials on that sort of thing?

[Khris_2]

I think I successfully addressed the problem with the endings of the coat and added a few other things people have mentioned about it. I'll probably take one more go at this by attempting the blurred frame idea, but other than that, I think I'm done. What about you guys?

[robalan]

One thing that jumped out at me when I saw this most recent update is that the coat appears to get larger as the animation progresses.  That is to say, the gap in the coat in front of his legs is considerably smaller at the end of the animation than it is at the beginning.  Admittedly, his hands are in his pockets at first, but it still looks strange.  Perhaps some wrinkles in the coat to show that it is being pushed back by his hands at first would help keep this from looking odd.

Also, I think his tie moves a bit too much for the motion of his body.  It kind of looks like it's moving of its own accord.

Another thing I notice as I watch the animation more is that his coat kind of snaps down at the end.  Perhaps having it settle a bit slower, sort of how the tie settles now, would help it look a bit more fluid.

Other than those things, this is a very smooth animation.  I can't wait to see what it looks like in color.

[Tremulant]

This is a cool aniamtion, and watching the progress has been really interesting so far. One thing that's bugging me, though, is the speed at which the coat moves. I haven't studied animation at all, nor have I studied this piece's subject matter, but it seems strange to me that the coat falls at almost exactly the same speed as the hands are raised, meaning both reach their endpoints at exactly the same frame. I think it'd look more natural if they weren't so in synch. The coat should 'close' before the hands are fully raised, or vice versa... like I said, I haven't looked into it, so I don't really know. Just a poorly planned thought, so maybe someone else can back me up/refute this.

Seriously though, nice and smooth, good proportions,etc. Makes me want to play with animation.

[Khris_2]

One thing that jumped out at me when I saw this most recent update is that the coat appears to get larger as the animation progresses.  That is to say, the gap in the coat in front of his legs is considerably smaller at the end of the animation than it is at the beginning.  Admittedly, his hands are in his pockets at first, but it still looks strange.  Perhaps some wrinkles in the coat to show that it is being pushed back by his hands at first would help keep this from looking odd.

Yeah, I completely agree. I'll have to make it a bit more obvious that his hands are keeping the coat pulled back at the beginning . I guess after looking at the animation for so long, it's easier to see how it's supposed to be even though it might not look that way to others. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also, I think his tie moves a bit too much for the motion of his body.  It kind of looks like it's moving of its own accord.

Another thing I notice as I watch the animation more is that his coat kind of snaps down at the end.  Perhaps having it settle a bit slower, sort of how the tie settles now, would help it look a bit more fluid.

Just as with what Tremulant pointed out, I agree. Admittedly, I got a bit lazy on doing those last few details that I decided to just upload how it is. I'm going to fix that up when I'm cleaning everything and hopefully the next update you see is a really nice-looking version of this.

Thanks for the help and comments so far, everyone!

Seriously though, nice and smooth, good proportions,etc. Makes me want to play with animation.

You should definitely go for it, I'm sure with your skill with pixels already, you could pull off some awesome looking things.

[Darien]

I don't understand why he has to bend his legs to bring his arms out like that.  I tried doing what he does myself but it seems so unnatural and weird to do that I think you should seriously rethink this animation.  Perhaps he should step forward with is left leg instead of doing the weird swaying thing.

[Khris_2]

I thought it made it look a bit more dramatic and gave some much-needed motion to his legs. Really it doesn't matter what he does with his legs, because he could take his hands out of his pockets without moving the rest of his body at all.

[Conzeit]

dont animate something just to animate something.

think of what the character would achieve by moving that part of his body, and what in his personality would make him move that way.

what kind of character is this? is he cocky to the point of being silly and laughable? that's the kind of idea I get by the way you made his legs move, he bends them to go back to the same exact starting frame, that just makes it look like he's pointlessly moving to atract attention.

[Khris_2]

That's right, another update.



Alright, so here's what I did. I tried out Godslayer's idea of adding a blurred frame to make the motion from pocketed hands to fighting stance more realistic/quicker. I also cut down the leg movement to a subtle bend that's a bit more realistic compared to what he was doing before. I really didn't want him to look goofy as I'm hoping for him to actually be a very serious character.

Hopefully I'm getting closer to a final product, but I'm kind of worried that the blurred frame actually made this a bit more comical looking than before.

[Godslayer]

I'd say loose the leg thing all together and see how that looks. If the blur is too comical for you, perhaps just delete the frame and let the eye blur on its own as it often does during quick animation.

[Pawige]

The blur won't wory very well unless you axe just about all the other frames, it looks like he's moving his arms slowly half-way, and the snapping them up. Very unnatural. I stood up just now to see what I naturally do when bringing my fists up, and I'd have him step forward to widen his stance a little. I would also assume that he's trained as a boxer, and would keep his arms up closer to his face, ready to hit or defend very quickly.

[Conzeit]

I think the "unnatural" type of motion might fit if this is a mentally-rigid-serious type guy, like he's planning and forming ideas about what fight will be like when he starts bringing out the fists, but then thinks of the pose he's suppose to assuma and quickly corrects his posture.

if he's more like a drab-serious type guy then it is not fitting at all.

I still dont see the need for leg movement...scratch that, knee bending if he's not transitioning towards a diferent pose in the final frame, if you are adding the knee bending for realism, dont, have him move his waist (like he is right now) but dont have the legs move only strictly what they have to, to adapt to that waist movement, that'll make it far more natural.

Now it's completly passable though, you could keep it and it wouldnt look silly at all, maybe even benefit the character if he's the mentally-rigid-serious type, it could be like a quirk he gets from being so stubborn about the way he has to move.

I agree with pawige though, widening the stance just a little bit would be the best solution, that was the problem with the old one anyway, it would've worked too if he was going towards a new stance but bending your knees all that way down just to go back to the same stance could only look silly.

[Khris_2]

Thanks again for the comments, I think I'll get this down by the next update.

I would also assume that he's trained as a boxer, and would keep his arms up closer to his face, ready to hit or defend very quickly.

That's exactly why I gave him a bit of a goofy position for his fists, because I want him to look like an ametuer fighter.

I'll take these recent comments and update again. I'll probably cut the blur, slightly change up the end stance and hopefully get an animation that's completely in character.

[Khris_2]

I left the coat animation off this one just because I didn't feel like animating it again (it'll be easy anyways). So I'm just wondering if this new motion works, if not, I was thinking of changing the step motion to something more of a sliding motion.

[Ro83rt]

I defiently am feeling the step, but might I suggest eith shrinking his hands or enlarging his head because his fists seem really huge at my viewpoint, but if no one else spotted it then don't worry about that.

[Xion]

I noticed the hands size as well, but I thought it gave him a sense of power. However, if you were going for a less experienced fighter, a smaller fist might better portray his lack of fighting ability.

[Godslayer]

He seems to be in slowmotion now.

[Khris_2]

This is still a sketch, so any weird sizes and whatnot is due to that. I'll see about cutting out some frames/start the step at a later moment to make it seem faster. Anymore comments before I do all the fun stuff?

[AlexHW]

I haven't read all the comments, but it seems as if everything is moveing at the same speed increments.
If you look at movement of figures, you can spot areas where part of one thing is moveing slower while another part of the same thing is moving faster. What you have to do is gage how things should change in relation to the whole movement, and not in a incremental way, because everything increments, you don't need to show the increments, you need to show the action.
hope that helps.

[Rox]

Looking good. I've been following this thread since you posted the first picture. The newest animation looks great, but as Alex Hanson-White mentioned, it needs a change in timing.

Personally, I think the individual parts of the animation look very good, but I'd like you to experiment with a different timing. I'm in no position to physically try it right now, but if I were to move into a pose like that, I'd probably start lifting the leg forward first, as the hands came out of the pockets, then as I'm putting the foot down again, I'd lift my hands into position in a slightly quicker movement. Try that, or the other way around. Or any othre combination, as long as he's not doing everything at the exact same time.

[shaheen]

Alright, I'm back and with a completely new animation. I got pretty annoyed with what I was trying to do and ditched the pose completely and decided to make him come off as calm, with his hands still in his pockets. So here's my latest:



I could definitely use some good critique on this before finalizing. First off, I'd like to say that I'll probably take out the thing he's doing with his feet, getting up on his toes. Looks kind of silly on a second inspection, like he's a kid or something. If you guys agree, that'd be nice to know.

Anyways, thanks for all the previous comments on what I was trying to do before. If nothing else, I got a lot of great tips and practice out of those first few messups.

[AlexHW]

for subtle movements, its unlikely to get much change in the fabric if it's loose around the figure.
You have to figure out where the fabric is getting pulled and pushed. It would be much easier if you had him throw away his coat as an intro, it would make the rest of teh animations easier to do(but if you want the extra challenge, keep it)..
The tiptoe thing is kinda odd i think..

[shaheen]

It would be much easier if you had him throw away his coat as an intro, it would make the rest of teh animations easier to do(but if you want the extra challenge, keep it)..

You know, I'm not sure why I never thought of doing this, but it makes me go thinking of how easier things would be.

EDIT: Totally unrelated, but I just noticed that I have two accounts...
Guess I signed up before and forgot about this one. :/

EDIT2: If you check my latest animation, you'll see I got rid of the foot movement and tweaked the speed slightly. Looks better, I think.

[shaheen]

This time around, I've started the shading, specifically on the left side (his right side). The light source is above and somewhat on the left, I think (hope). I'm not so sure if the flap things (can't remember the name of them, they're on the shoulders) should be the same color as the rest of the coat, I'll have to check a reference later.

[terminal_arcade]

Flap things? Do you mean his jacket lapels?

Anyway, I like the sigh sorta animation. I hope in the final there'll be some more time in between each one, because considering how much movement is going on, I wouldn't be able to continue on like that for long without getting seirously light-headed.

In any case, I think he should have suspenders. It seems to just fit the style. Especially if he takes his coat off. Another small detail you might want to consider is the middle line of his shirt. Find a reference of someone wearing a white shirt tucked in, and look at the line down the center as it goes under the belt. It's not grey fade to black. It stays very light-coloured. Or at least coloured similarly to the surrounding shirt.

[shaheen]

Alright, an update. Changed the coat, and added suspenders among other things.

A reference I've been using for the coat here: http://www.eshopone.com/images/trench-coats/trench-coat-detail-main.jpg

EDIT: terminal: the flap things I'm talking about are called "epaulettes." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epaulette

[Xion]

Nice so far, but just so you know, dithering doesn't mix well with animation.

[shaheen]

Yeah, I'll just have to be a bit more careful when animating, but I'm fine with doing some extra work.

[terminal_arcade]

Aw, you listened to all my suggestions! I feel liked. Or at least correct?
Anyway, it's looking really good.

[2dgamers]

Reminds me alot of Dick Tracy. Maybe add some length to his tie so it doesn't look like he is wearing his highschool clip-on? His nose is pretty long too. (Must lie a lot?)