AuthorTopic: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]  (Read 9623 times)

Offline Vakinox

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[WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

on: September 08, 2012, 09:49:16 pm
(Specifics in Title)

Back working on a small project, and just having some trouble getting the base character sprite perfected.
I have the South-bound animation working GREAT. It's just the East and North-bound animations that are giving me trouble.

Does anybody have advice or edits they can provide to give me a hand?
Every little bit is appreciated!

[Incentive:] Will compensate those who help me finish with products from Steam upon completion if needed or asked (conditions apply).

[The Sprite:]





[Explanation & Direction:]

The torso is black for a black sweater (simple and easy to replace).
The leggings however is what's mainly giving me trouble, mainly with shading rather than forming an outline. I try to fill in the area for pants and start from there, but it never seems "right."
The second frame of the East-bound sprite (where the legs are apart) is pretty much done, it's the first frame that's a headache. Been working and erasing for 5 days straight now.
Everything else is pretty much done, as far as perspective, style. The hands are probably the only other thing that might need a bit of editing, but as far as I can tell, it's maybe only a pixel here or there off.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 03:54:51 am by Vakinox »

Offline buddy90

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #1 on: September 09, 2012, 12:50:37 am
Hello,

These sprites are pretty cute. For the north one, I would suggest a third frame in between, or maybe two. A lot of sprites this small do just have 2 frames, however, because this character moves so much, I think more frames would solve your problem.

The same goes for the east, although you should draw the hands in both frames. It looks like he wears a cloak right now, make sure to keep some details intact.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #2 on: September 09, 2012, 03:42:37 am
I would suggest a third frame in between, or maybe two. A lot of sprites this small do just have 2 frames, however, because this character moves so much, I think more frames would solve your problem.

Already done and attempted. It actually just makes the animation just look more fluid if done right and has no effect on helping finish up the sprite itself (shading, editing, etc.). It probably would help if 2/3 of the frames were done, by gazing at what's left needed to be filled-in with transitions from  frame to frame, but this isn't the case (most of the bottom half on the North animation is far too incomplete). Also, the sprite takes up too much of the 16x16 box dimensions to make an appropriate "standing still" in-between frame.

Here's an example of what it would produce:

 

Really it just creates a "skating effect" on the final product, and provides almost little to no transition help from frame to frame, which I think would probably be eliminated if the feet were drawn closer together, but then that just creates an added trouble of disproportional legs.

As with the East-bound animation, what you're probably are referring to is the effect given off provided by the unfinished 1st frame, not the individual frames them-self. I'm pretty sure it has more to do with no leggings or arm placement on the first frame rather than an incomplete 2nd frame also. Here's an older version with arms and torso placement for reference:



For added reference, what I'm looking to accomplish is something along the lines of the advice given here for 2-frame sprites:

http://manningkrull.com/pixel-art/walking.php

Thanks for the input though, it definitely gave me some things to consider looking over again.
Still hard at work at creating another update... please provide any more assistance or help if possible. Immensely appreciated :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 04:02:18 am by Vakinox »

Offline buddy90

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #3 on: September 09, 2012, 06:30:50 pm
Here, I made a quick little sprite. Maybe it can give you some ideas.

Offline shane

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #4 on: September 09, 2012, 07:16:33 pm
I like but are you going for that limping/skating look? It would look less awkward if it was like 'buddy90's' one :)

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 08:00:45 pm
I like but are you going for that limping/skating look? It would look less awkward if it was like 'buddy90's' one :)

Thanks.

As for the problems with my sprite: As stated in the previous post, the small 16x16 dimensions provide little room for a 4 frame animation in that perspective (Translation: No, it's not intentional).
No matter what is done in edits to the sprite for the "standing-still" frame in the 4 frame animation, the legs will either be close together (creating the "skating effect") or become disproportional (legs become messed up).

The 2-frame South-bound animation in the original first post I made is finished and is the one I'm using. I'm looking for advice and edits on the North-bound and East-bound sprite animations.
Plus 2-frame animations was what I was set on making while starting the project. I will gladly accept 4-frame animation advice if it's possible and simply convert it down to a 2-frame animation later on.

[The Two Animations I'm Really Looking for Help On:]





Two things wrong with buddy90's animation:

1.) It's in the wrong perspective. It's moving forward towards the screen, not down it.
2.) The feet are never separated in any frames (and a few pixels off here and there, but that's okay for a base sprite).

It looks great for a base animation that's needed to move towards the screen, but it's not at all what I'm looking for...
I can definitely put it to good use later on though, implementing it some way or another.

However, it's back to the drawing board for now.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 08:08:33 pm by Vakinox »

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 04:24:05 pm
[Update:]

Been working on fixing the East-bound animation all night now.
So far, I find I'm getting closer, but it's still no cigar.

I tried to create a spinning animation of the character again, in hoping that the southwest/southeast frames would provide help in editing the East/West-bound animations.



It helped a little bit, but not as well as I would've hoped.



As it's clear to see... efforts have still been fruitless in trying to create an alright animation:



Is it getting any better though?
Words of advice, edits, anything and everything is welcomed.

Offline leroy

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 04:43:48 pm
In my opinion this is way better than that forward head tilt Slow it down just a tad though.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 05:04:47 pm
Thanks for the advice :)

I slowed it down a bit more, and edited some things:



EDIT2:



Getting any better?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 06:23:24 pm by Vakinox »

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 07:14:43 pm
[Update:]

I've edited some more on both the East and North-bound animations.
Also completed the Spin animation to help with editing other frames.

Running into problems still though with the East and North-bound animations.
Hand placement on the East-bound animation is becoming a major pain.
The North-bound animation has a problem pants-wise. It seems they standing still rather than moving.

Any advice?



Offline buddy90

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #10 on: September 11, 2012, 02:47:31 am
I think it might help you with this animation to first try a larger sprite, say, 32 x 32. I think you can see a lot that you cannot see right now, that will later help you to make a 16x16 sprite.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 02:04:16 pm
*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:41:07 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 03:50:20 am
@buddy90: It would definitely make it easier and good for practice, however as long as I've been doing this, this is probably the best of my abilities sad to say. Also, this sprite is something I've been working on since March, atleast half a year, as my post history would indicate. It'll be ashame to toss progress so far for a complete redo now, which will not even be what I want. Practice has been done numerous times, I'm working with what I can now. Thanks for the suggestion though. It's the thought that counts.

@AlexHW: Thanks, took alot of trial and error to make 'em the way they are now. Currently using 4 frames to precisely do as you say and make the animations more fluidly, and then trim them down to 2 frames as originally intended. The biggest problem lies with the East-bound animation because a 4 frame animation seems impossible for a sprite at that size and the position it's in.

[Update:]

I reworked on the East and North animations.
On the East animation, I repositioned the hands. This time they don't do as much movement and stay more so in place (still unfinished).
On the North animation, I finally completed the arms, and now have work to do on the pants. Made some headway though.




Any edits or advice would be really helpful. Thanks to all who contribute.



[Update:]

I've done the best I could do with the latest update.

If anybody can please help do some minor edits to these last animations, it'll be greatly appreciated.
Here's the progress made so far:




North-bound Edits:
* Apparently the "hop" that's normally put in animations to aid the illusion of movement affects the pants region too much, thus was taken out.
* A base for the pants/legs has been laid down, I think it actually looks alright. The problem: Highlights.
The may be other problems still within the animation, but I'm having trouble singling them out at the moment.

East-bound Edits:
* Base for the pants/leg region has been laid down. Having problems creating highlights for this one also.
So far, it's looking pretty much finished. Just needs some minor edits to the hands and shading for legs.

If anybody can please make some edits to this sprite, even give advice on how to fix it, I'll be in your debt.
Please help, anybody.



[Update:]

North-bound Edits:
*Re-added the head bop. Instead of moving the head downwards, it now moves forward towards the chest.
* Highlights to the base were added. Still not perfect, but it's in progress.

East-bound Edits:
* Took a few pixels off the stretch of the foot.
* Highlighted the base. Improvements made, but still could use work.
* Edited the arm.

No edits were made to the South-bound animation.
Though the more I look at it, the more the arms bother me.


[Progress:]




« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 03:49:42 am by PixelPiledriver »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 10:20:33 am
Here's my attempt to fix it:

-> walk up had seriously curious thing happening with the dude's bum. I also massively reduced the arms as the fists are on his fore side.

-> That one was mostly good, only curious things were happening to the pants. I tried to keep "rear leg = shadowed leg". Okay, you can't give the illusion that he's walking "normally" anymore, but at least one should better read pixels below his belt. I also altered hands so that they keep the same size. That gives him maybe a funny attitude, as someone who'd keep elbows high and fists ready to fight (reverting to square fist could be useful here. I thing that's not too bad for a RPG hero.

-> : just reduced the amount of moves the arms do ... for some reason, the animation is screwed up on this one, unfortunately. I have overdone pants separation, I'm afraid.

And here you go: Largo is ready to save Tokyo from ultimate destruction ^_^
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:23:59 am by PypeBros »

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 05:09:50 pm
Thanks bro, and awesome job on the East-bound animation.
Took me for a spin, really helped out.
Went back though and did some more editing.
Starting to look really great. So again, thanks man.

[North-bound edits:]
Lol, yeah I've been having the same exact butt-problem too.
And thanks for the heads-up on the arms, it helped me fix and notice some more things.
There was still problems I thought though with both the arms and pants.
I enlarged the arms and gave them highlights.
I also gave the pants a different pattern, though it could still use some fixin.



[East-bound edits:]
Like said before, your addition really did wonders.
The only thing edited here was the pants a bit.



[South-bound edits:]
I tried to combine your update with the older version.
Most of the newest edits actually made it better.
The more I look at the animation though, the more the arms seem wrong.
Everything else looks fine, don't know what else to do for the arms though.



So, how does it look? Getting any better?

Lol, awesome webcomic by the way... had me sold at robot army. :)
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 05:36:45 pm by Vakinox »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #15 on: September 14, 2012, 09:39:03 pm
So, how does it look? Getting any better?
I think so. You still have some issue with the pants, imho. I don't know what you're trying to render with the north-walk, maybe if you could link to a photo of the kind of trousers you're character is supposed to wear, it'd help. You're keeping the same color everywhere, here, with just some pattern that moves left & right. I'd expect the leg that goes forward to go in the shadow when looking at the guy's back, instead.

your front (south) walk is almost ready, imho. You may just have a bit too much separation between the two legs. I.e. the trousers just under the belt bums&hips) will not move into shadow and should have almost the same shade through the whole anim. I'd suggest some not-too-dark grey there.

Btw, you're using 4 colour + alpha on your sprite. Iirc, NES and GBC are 3 colour + alpha...

Offline Grimsane

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #16 on: September 15, 2012, 01:56:17 am
due to a plea for help, I've spent some time doing an edit

I'm not sure if you're commited to 2 frames or not, here's a 3 frame animation alternating 1-2-1-3
with the back though it's still 3 but mostly 2 and 3 are just flipped, but unique due to not flipping the hair



hope that helps

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #17 on: September 18, 2012, 04:49:51 am
Thanks it did help, ALOT. Then I spent the whole weekend trying to convert it after finding out my restrictions had less colors than what I originally thought.
After attempting to redraw them to the required restrictions, this is the only one that came out alright:



---
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 01:46:56 am by Vakinox »

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #18 on: September 18, 2012, 12:29:32 pm
Relax.
Games are tough.
Learn to like the ups and downs.
The end result of a product is awesome but you gotta enjoy the grind to get there smoothly.

Quote
Then I spent the whole weekend trying to convert it after finding out my restrictions had less colors than what I originally thought.
What are your restrictions exactly?
Perhaps you are trying to program a GB rom?
Something like that?

Quote
I fucking tried my best on this shit and it ain't enough
Is it really that bad?
I don't think so.
Shipping a game in a timely manner sometimes means certain parts of the game doesn't reach its full potential.
Quantity and quality is a balance.

What kind of other stuff does your project need?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 12:47:20 pm by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline buddy90

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #19 on: September 18, 2012, 04:34:04 pm
Look, you already figured it out. I got your "skating" one, and it only needed one edit. On the second frame, you forgot to move his head a pixel down. I took the last frame, flipped it, moved the head a pixel down, flipped the hair so it matches the other frames, and made it the second frame.

That's all.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #20 on: September 18, 2012, 04:36:21 pm
For the pixel art itself, restrictions are:

Game Boy uses 8bit, monochrome 4-shades palette.

* 8x8 up to16x16 tiles
* 8x8, 8x16, 16x8, or 16x16 sprites
* 160x144 screen resolution
* 3 color + alpha color bg palette
* 3 color + alpha sprite palettes
* No more than 10 sprites per scanline on the raster

The color scheme originally used:


Attempted to go ahead and redraw again, this time piece by piece (head to torso to hands):




This time, just the arms and torso area were messed around with (+simplified).
Now trying to appropriate feet to the sprite and I'm probably done.

Perhaps you are trying to program a GB rom?

Yes.

Relax. Games are tough.

Sorry, just under alot of stress lately.

Is it really that bad?

The frustration, yeah maybe. The sprite, no.
The sprite is great, it's just taking a lot of focus time which seems is being ill-spent because there hasn't been a milestone yet that says: Almost there, near finished.

Shipping a game in a timely manner sometimes means certain parts of the game doesn't reach its full potential.

Unfinished is not a problem, just as long as it's finished to a certain extent to feel like there's been some accomplishment.

What kind of other stuff does your project need?

Some tiles (which I'll probably have to rework around the sprite), and a little coding perhaps. Not much.



[UPDATE:]

One week and one day ago, I decided to start fresh with 1 less color and the use of 4 frames (due to gameboy restrictions).
Here's my latest progress:




The North and South animations are fantastic. I really think I couldn't do 'em any better.
Probably could use some clean up in the leg-area, but above that, they're fine.

The East animation is the only one I'm having trouble with... if anybody could clean it up, everything will be totally and completely finished.
It's pretty much done, it just needs to be more smoother, which I'm having problems applying the correct edits.
Here it is:



--------

[UPDATE:]

Worked some more, specifically on the East-bound animation.
I've corrected the hands and the feet motions in each frame.
Although, I'm having problems filling in the rest of it correctly.
Here's what I have so far:



« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 08:00:46 am by Vakinox »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #21 on: September 28, 2012, 12:21:49 pm
right now, it's missing the small "body bop" you used to have, which definitely helps reading the animation as "walking" at this scale.

Offline Vakinox

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Re: [WIP] 8-Bit 16x16 2-Frame GBC RPG Sprite [C+C]

Reply #22 on: September 29, 2012, 02:37:10 pm
Alright, updated it with head movement.
Thus, had to re-edit the sprite to support the changes.

All sprite direction animations now need to be re-worked.

Here's the current look: