AuthorTopic: Am I going crazy here?  (Read 37300 times)

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #90 on: September 12, 2012, 10:53:00 am
You keep ignoring things directed to you which relate to how others feel about your posts. I reward you a strike.
If you have a problem with this you can PM me.
You didn't really explain well what was bothering you about my habits.
But if you prefer to explain it to me in pm, then I can pm you to ask about it. oh well..

edit: also, He never asked me to respond to his post. Am I suppose to be a mind-reader?.. perhaps he didn't want me to respond.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 11:07:11 am by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline Helm

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #91 on: September 12, 2012, 11:41:14 am
When someone's telling you you've offended them usually that's a cue to either apologize or explain yourself until the thing's cleared up. Of course you can do what you do and avoid this, but it's not going to show good judgment in social situations and that ends up with people no longer talking to you.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #92 on: September 12, 2012, 12:04:28 pm
Well I'm not really sure what Carnivac is upset with about my tone as I just offered suggestions. I didn't see the point in making a big deal about it since it sounded more like a side-remark which I read and considered and then moved on. If he wants to explain how I'm making him uncomfortable then he can do that. I don't have any malice towards him- I barely know him so all I can react to is with the things he says.
I'm well aware of what makes people not want to talk to someone, but I'm trying to talk to people who understand me or who can understand me. I have to be myself to do this otherwise who am I and who would really know me? If people don't want to talk to me, that's their choice, and I would hope that they choose for their own sake- not mine. because it would save me a lot of trouble and stuff.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 12:09:09 pm by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline Helm

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #93 on: September 12, 2012, 04:03:59 pm
It's all great that you're trying to retain your integrity about who you are, but it might come to be that who you are is annoying and rude for enough people that you get banned. I, for one, wouldn't want to see that. You'd have to contain who you are, in this case. If you aren't willing to do that, you'll have a rough time here and everywhere else on the 'net, really.

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #94 on: September 12, 2012, 04:55:45 pm
Can you point out the inconsistency more specifically with an edit or something? I'm not seeing it currently. The shading/tones used appear to be supporting the structure of the forms involved and I don't really see the requirement for anti-aliasing anywhere..



Original on left, edit on right.  see my issue with that part of the sprite is the un-anti-aliased part of the hair looks far too sharp and jagged compared to the rest and it sticks out like a sore thumb to me and I find things like that very distracting whether I'm playing a game or just looking at screenshots of it.  There's no reason for that hair to need to stand out as it serves no gameplay function or feature so I did the edit on the right that just smooths it a bit so it looks more consistent compared to the rest. Ok I also made a couple slight tweaks on other parts of the hair (the more I look at sprites like this the more I find myself not liking them and feeling the urge to tweak them).  Also added a couple of the dark 'gray' pixels to the bottom of the hair to seperate it from the shirt as I felt it blended in far too much before and could benefit from a slight bit of seperation.  Anyways now that hair is a bit smoother my eyes draw more to the face of the character which is fine cos the face is more of a focal point.   Not saying my edit is 'right' or 'correct' and it could probably be done better, but that's what I see and I certainly prefer it to the original which as I've said bugged me a lot.   I still don't even understand why an edit was even requested to explain what I was referring to. 

And about being offended it may be an issue on my part that I simply misunderstand your way of speaking (hey I'd happily admit I'm an idiot and far less knowledgable about actual 'arty' terms and techniques) but to me it comes across as very condescending or patronizing and I do not like it.   
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Offline Dusty

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #95 on: September 12, 2012, 05:15:30 pm
Well typically the exterior of sprites are not AAed because it wouldn't work on every background the sprite may be placed over, no? But if it's just a general observation I agree... but then again rarely ever see non-AAed pixel art where the harshness doesn't bother me.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 05:17:55 pm by Dusty »

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #96 on: September 12, 2012, 05:32:05 pm
But it's NOT just the exterior of that hair (look where it meets the dark shadowed area of the hair before the face) and it's the fact the many areas of all of the sprite has anti-aliasing even on the exterior which makes this bit without so damn out of place...  Anyways the darkening anti-aliasing on an exterior works as a sort of 'outline' anyways which gives it more chance to stand out more from whatever background is in use as it should. 
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Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #97 on: September 12, 2012, 11:42:59 pm
It's all great that you're trying to retain your integrity about who you are, but it might come to be that who you are is annoying and rude for enough people that you get banned. I, for one, wouldn't want to see that. You'd have to contain who you are, in this case. If you aren't willing to do that, you'll have a rough time here and everywhere else on the 'net, really.
You make it sound like it's inevitable, but we're all working together. So it's not a one sided observation here- perhaps there are more conditions involved than simply how I act that determines whether I get banned. It's easy to point fingers, basically.

Can you point out the inconsistency more specifically with an edit or something? I'm not seeing it currently. The shading/tones used appear to be supporting the structure of the forms involved and I don't really see the requirement for anti-aliasing anywhere..



Original on left, edit on right.  see my issue with that part of the sprite is the un-anti-aliased part of the hair looks far too sharp and jagged compared to the rest and it sticks out like a sore thumb to me and I find things like that very distracting whether I'm playing a game or just looking at screenshots of it. 
Looks better without the anti-aliasing to me. The anti-alias you added just blurs the detail of the surface edge. Hair extends straight and shouldn't be beveled as your anti-aliasing is making it look. Not everything is soft around the edges in the world, nor should it be. Just because you can make it so in a game doesn't mean it'll make the art more pleasing. Often if you do it just makes the art more muddy.

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There's no reason for that hair to need to stand out as it serves no gameplay function or feature so I did the edit on the right that just smooths it a bit so it looks more consistent compared to the rest.
I don't understand this reasoning. This game has a lot to do with the characters and how they look, and aesthetic is important. Maybe not to the gameplay, but I don't see how you can make the look of a character unimportant in this case to the extent that you would need to smear out part of it for the sake of making the character appear out of focus.

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Ok I also made a couple slight tweaks on other parts of the hair (the more I look at sprites like this the more I find myself not liking them and feeling the urge to tweak them).  Also added a couple of the dark 'gray' pixels to the bottom of the hair to seperate it from the shirt as I felt it blended in far too much before and could benefit from a slight bit of seperation. 
All you're doing is adding more work than is necessary and blurring the edges, making surface edges appear less clear by making the character appear out of focus.

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Anyways now that hair is a bit smoother my eyes draw more to the face of the character which is fine cos the face is more of a focal point.   Not saying my edit is 'right' or 'correct' and it could probably be done better, but that's what I see and I certainly prefer it to the original which as I've said bugged me a lot.   I still don't even understand why an edit was even requested to explain what I was referring to. 
You totally changed the hair's crispness and clarity. I prefer the original because the hair feels more straight and sharp. Slick rather than fuzzy.
You should understand how these changes you are making effect the overall impression of surfaces and texture. It would serve you well as a pixel-artist. Not to do these things based on a knee-jerk reaction for personal preference or habits. This is a suggestion for improving your understanding, not an insult or demeaning comment. You edits may be relevant in other situations, but I don't see the point of it in this case. All your reasoning is stemming from your own personal preference as to how edges should look, and I don't know if you're taking into consideration what it is being represented.

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And about being offended it may be an issue on my part that I simply misunderstand your way of speaking (hey I'd happily admit I'm an idiot and far less knowledgable about actual 'arty' terms and techniques) but to me it comes across as very condescending or patronizing and I do not like it.   
I don't know what to say about that. I apologize if I make you feel like that, but I'm just trying to help by explaining what I see wrong with things. It can be tough to hear for anyone. I don't like being "wronged" either, but It's not going to prevent myself from sharing what I know is the case if I believe I am right. If people want to take what I say personally, that is not my fault.

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #98 on: September 13, 2012, 01:31:45 pm
This is a suggestion for improving your understanding, not an insult or demeaning comment.


Every goddamn thing you say sounds like a demeaning comment.  And I totally disagree with you about the hair edit.  From what you say pretty much everything I've pixelled looks 'blurry' or 'muddy' and quite frankly I think you're absolutely wrong.   Also after speaking with a couple other people about you I'm making this my last interaction with you.  I do not enjoy reading your pretentious comments nor do I feel I should waste my time any further.
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Offline Willows

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #99 on: September 13, 2012, 01:49:53 pm
It was the inconsistency in AA that Carnivac was complaining about, yeah? He was objecting to the AA of the hair in one location forcing a stark contrast between two elements of the same object (hair), which stuck out as a sore thumb, to him. To ask him to do an edit and then criticize specific aspects of the edit without considering the application of the concept he's portraying across the whole image just reinforces in me the idea that you're disinterested in the outcome of the argument and sustaining the argument for the sake of itself.

I am of the opinion that Carnivac's edit would produce a more pleasant image were the concept extended across the whole. There are quite a few high contrast / banded pixel edges that could use love and are the way they are because they are, right now. Either that, or push the image the other way and bring everything to the same level of un-smoothness. To have the lock of hair hanging contained by the sprite be very soft and AA'd and the other consisting mostly of two un-AA'd 3x3 blocks of white is definitely something that needs more attention, and most probably not a happy accident.

Alex, as a thought : Most everyone (myself included) assumes they're always right. A healthy person will also allow themselves to be wrong. Do you allow yourself to be wrong?

(My line of questioning here is fairly heavy. If you don't care to respond or this isn't something you want to get in to, I fully appreciate that. If you -are- interested I will happily explain every bit of where these questions come from in a common pursuit of truth! )