AuthorTopic: Am I going crazy here?  (Read 38020 times)

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #80 on: September 12, 2012, 07:50:49 am
Can you point out the inconsistency more specifically with an edit or something? I'm not seeing it currently. The shading/tones used appear to be supporting the structure of the forms involved and I don't really see the requirement for anti-aliasing anywhere..

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #81 on: September 12, 2012, 08:22:54 am
Antialiasing is a tough one, obviously you can't have antialiasing very easily if you can change the character's palette.
anti-aliasing has nothing to do with whether a palette can be swapped. You misunderstand what anti-aliasing is, and it is not always beneficial to an image because the intention is to smear/blend tones to appear smoother. Smoothing can remove precision of edge detail.

If you were wondering why you raise people's hackles so often, it's this strange assumption that nobody else can comprehend simple concepts such as antialiasing and 'how to create something'. 

I understand exactly what antialiasing is and I'm not sure what on earth makes you think otherwise.   ???

There are technical implications of palette swapping that makes antialiasing between colour ramps very problematic.  Try and draw two different coloured sections, antialiased betweem, using two separate colour ramps and see what happens when they're swapped with other colour ramps.  Chaos!  :crazy:

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #82 on: September 12, 2012, 08:42:37 am
What you're talking about is a color issue, not an anti-aliasing issue. Having implications of palette swapping requires extra management of the colors, not the anti-aliasing.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #83 on: September 12, 2012, 08:53:56 am
What he (and I earlier) are saying is that not having aa to deal with when you plan to colourswap is easy. Having to make sure that all the colour combos work with the aa would result in a lot more work and restrict possible combos. Especially if you work on a commercial game where time is money.

Also please don't ignore replies which are directed at how your posts are perceived (Carnivac's last post)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #84 on: September 12, 2012, 09:11:07 am
What he (and I earlier) are saying is that not having aa to deal with when you plan to colourswap is easy. Having to make sure that all the colour combos work with the aa would result in a lot more work and restrict possible combos. Especially if you work on a commercial game where time is money.
Did you read my post? implications of color-swapping require management of the color, not the aa. Rikfuzz was saying that you can't having aa easily if you are changing the palette, but that is false.
If restrictions of amounts of color reduce the amount of useful shades for rendering a form, then yea the restriction is affecting the aa; the color isn't effecting the aa.

Quote
Also please don't ignore replies which are directed at how your posts are perceived (Carnivac's last post)
Don't know what you mean.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 09:20:25 am by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #85 on: September 12, 2012, 09:22:39 am
I mean this:

Quote
Also please don't ignore replies which are directed at how your posts are perceived (Carnivac's last post)
Don't know what you mean.

You should study form and value more and stop using techniques that serve to mask your ability to discern for yourself how to create something.

I'm starting to get quite offended by your tone here. 

About the aa again:

In most cases older hardware would have 16 colour sprites. One reserved for trans, so 15.
This allows for quite a few setups still in terms of ramps.
The thing is that a) usually it is unwise to have mixed ramps if you plan to do a lot of colourswapping (esp. under time restraints) and b) you want to use all your colours for your ramps and not reserve some colours for just aa between the combos you do.

If you did that and had special aa colours for each of the combos possible then you would be fine, but this was not the case on old hardware, and even today would increase the workload by an unreasonable amount.

As I said, depending on how you manage your colours you can still do aa and colourswap and it will look ok in most cases. Like in SF2 where everything is relatively washed out and there are not too many super saturated colours.

What rikfuzz said still stands and is valid. This is not soley a colour or an aa issue, but it is a combination. And eliminating the aa makes your life a lot easier in this case.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #86 on: September 12, 2012, 09:32:24 am
The whole point of palette swapping is to make as much variation as possible.  What's the point of palette swapping, if you're restricting to combinations that are rough equivalents of the original to stop the AA behaving differently?  I've worked on several commercial games that utilise palette swapping or user/code generated palettes, and buffer shades between ramps is much more hassle than it's worth.  This is my experience. I don't know how that assessment is 'false'.  ::)

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #87 on: September 12, 2012, 10:24:33 am
Palette swapping should make workload easier. Just seems as if your troubles stem from an artistic standpoint and not necessarily a technical one. The real issue here isn't that limited colors forces you to cut out aa, but rather limited colors forces you to manage them more precisely. The palette-swapping helps give a bit of variability to it, at a lower cost.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #88 on: September 12, 2012, 10:29:30 am
You keep ignoring things directed to you which relate to how others feel about your posts. I reward you a strike.
If you have a problem with this you can PM me.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 10:36:18 am by ptoing »
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: Am I going crazy here?

Reply #89 on: September 12, 2012, 10:37:03 am
Oh my, this thread took a turn. I think sides have been expressed on these issues. If you carry on, try to be considerate.