AuthorTopic: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C] (back again, more material!)  (Read 12187 times)

Offline Psiweapon

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So long folks.

I'm considering buying Graphics Gale, currently I'm trying the shareware version, and this is what I've come up with so far.

I wanted to make a SD-style hero that looks worried and anxious, as opposed to looking all calm and composed while shooting down zombie robots.

These are the three animations so far, in chronological order



For the walk cycle (moar liek run cycle), first I drew one leg in 4 positions and cloned it, but a 4-frame cycle looked too choppy, so I drew the in-between frames manually.



I probably went a bit overboard with the handgun bobbing, wanted to make the character look nervous and trembling



The first two frames are copied from the standing animation  :-[


This is the spritesheet, 20 colors used, 22 if you count the yellow and brown in the reference line at the right. Probably too many colors, I should zap some.



First I tried bigger sizes, but they all turned out crap, so in the end I opted for 32x32 (the size I've got most experience with) and upscaling.

Can you folks give me any clues or advice? I'm sure there must be some glaring errors since I usually don't do this kind of stuff, but that's one of the reasons I wanted to do it, for a change.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 02:55:11 am by Psiweapon »

Offline Grimsane

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 01:02:18 pm
yeah he looks like he's being mugged and trying to hold onto the gun while it's trying to be taken, that or he's doing something extremely suspect

your walk cycle could use some head bob, and i think you need to bring his foreground foot down a tad on the apex of his forward stride, it's jarring compared to the rest of his leg motion, and he definitely looks nervous, the bead of sweat's a nice touch, although it goes ape on the firing animation the sideburn  motion might work on it's own but it clashes with the bead of sweat. and generally your legs stay planted and your body recoils, the sliding looks off.

with some refinement this'll look pretty good hope you persevere with it :y: and hope you followed my feedback and find it helpful

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 01:24:29 pm
seconding grimsane's advice: having the head, shoulders and back remaining completely frozen during the walk gives an un-natural feel, and the foot seems to magically drop to the ground... you could use one extra frame here.

You've pretty well rendered the mood of the hero, btw.

Offline r1k

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 01:58:04 pm
I really like the character of the, uh, character..
for the second animation I think that trembling is more about small shakes and not big jerks or wobbling.

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 12:33:57 am
Awesome feedback guys, tvm. I think I'm going to follow everything.

yeah he looks like he's being mugged and trying to hold onto the gun while it's trying to be taken, that or he's doing something extremely suspect

your walk cycle could use some head bob, and i think you need to bring his foreground foot down a tad on the apex of his forward stride, it's jarring compared to the rest of his leg motion, and he definitely looks nervous, the bead of sweat's a nice touch, although it goes ape on the firing animation the sideburn  motion might work on it's own but it clashes with the bead of sweat. and generally your legs stay planted and your body recoils, the sliding looks off.

with some refinement this'll look pretty good hope you persevere with it :y: and hope you followed my feedback and find it helpful

Will correct that "chop" between foreground foot lurched forward and foreground foot touching ground.

You're quite right with the sideburn/sweat conflict, I think I'll keep the sideburn motion and scratch the sweat drop from the firing animation (after all, the sweat drop shows on the other animations)

Thanks for the recoil tip.

seconding grimsane's advice: having the head, shoulders and back remaining completely frozen during the walk gives an un-natural feel, and the foot seems to magically drop to the ground... you could use one extra frame here.


You've pretty well rendered the mood of the hero, btw.

Yes, I'll have the head bob up and down at least a bit during running, or give it some other kind of movement.

About the foot, yes, I have to fix that chop... but I' guess I'll change the existing frames instead of adding another one because I want to stick to 8 frames (The mouth has two frames, the sweat drop has four, etc. having nine frames is going to be a headache.

I really like the character of the, uh, character..
for the second animation I think that trembling is more about small shakes and not big jerks or wobbling.

Thanks! I will try toning the movement down a bit and see if it still conveys the emotion properly.

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 02:55:31 am
The speed on these is a little slow.
They don't read quite as action packed as they could, especially if he's freakin out.
I didn't edit the sweat, just the overall motions.

For the trembling you can use an old animation trick called a Stagger.





Here's how it works.
Animate something in a linear fashion.
Moving from start to end.
The spacing does not need to be even, feel free to weight it at the ends or wherever you feel necessary.
(Altho to start try with just even spacing to understand the process)



Then take the frames and shoot them in a "Staggered" order.
The classic format for understanding a stagger goes like this.

Original Frames:     1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Staggered Frames: 1 3 2 4 3 5 4 6 5 7 6 8 7 9 8 10 9 11 10 12 11 12

Really its just a frame pattern formula.
+2 -1 +2 -1 +2 -1 +2 -1 etc........
This makes the animation move in a given direction but with "resistance".
Try modifying the formula as it progresses.

For this animation my frame order was a little different than the above example, since it ping pongs, and repeats at either end, and i messed with it some.

Original Frames:     1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
Staggered Frames: 1 3 2 4 3  4 5 4 5 4 5 4  3 4 2 3 1  2 1 2 1 2 1 2
Staggered Meaning: transition to right  hold and shake on right  transition to left  hold and shake on left

In summary, these 2 animations have the EXACT SAME UNIQUE FRAMES.

Only the order and number of repeats is different.

You'll see this trick used all over the place in old cartoons, like Ren & Stimpy, Looney Tunes and etc.
And video games, SNK, Capcom etc.
It is best used to represent tension, fear, strength, madness, struggle, and such things.
But is a valuable trick for representing many other things creatively as well.

For the gun fire:
Adding a single frame of resolve to the gun when it comes down will help dissipate the fast motion.
Also it could withstand even more speed than I've added here.





I really like what you have!
You're doing a great job!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 02:59:46 am by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 04:29:35 am
@piledriver:

O____O

Just... Wow. Thanks. I'm at a loss for words. That stagger pro-tip was immensely helpful. Completely new knowledge.

I've downloaded all your edits and I'm delving into them.

Tomorrow I'll post an update of each animation, maybe more.

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 11:12:04 pm
Here are some updates:

1st: Trying to make the run animation smoother (This still needs head bobbing)


2nd: First try at stagger animation.

Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 11:41:26 pm
PixelPileDriver, that's really fantastic. Do you remember where you heard that trick? Or did you just figure it out by yourself by observing animations? I've never seen it mentioned anywhere before!

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 01:42:18 am
Quote
Here are some updates:
Progress!!!
Keep it up!

Quote
did you just figure it out by yourself by observing animations?
Nope I didn't figure this out myself.
It's a classic technique developed long ago.
But once you know a good helping of the basics you CAN learn a good amount from just observation.
Most of the time really good animation is "invisible" because the entertainment value is so distracting.
The basics are the most important thing to understand as it allows you to break down animation visually and make educated edits to achieve a certain goal.

Quote
Do you remember where you heard that trick?
I studied art and programming at Digipen and learned animation from Jazno Francoeur and Tony White.
Both were very good teachers.
They taught traditional paper animation for films, Disney type stuff.
Even tho it is outside medium and presentation style of pixel art and video games, much of film animation knowledge has been covered more thouroughly in the past.
Most likely because it is much older, pretty much 100 years now.
But don't get me wrong, not saying it is more spectacular or appropriate.
All mediums have properties and all techniques should be used in context.
Most of the time you can use animation tech in bite sizes without having to go full blown crazy on everything and get really powerful results.

Quote
I've never seen it mentioned anywhere before!
There's a rather large chunk of animation theory that's difficult to find.
The Animators Survival Kit is good.
There's also apparently a newer version of the book, but I haven't read it so I can't personally recommend the difference.
It's a good book and highly recommended by almost everyone.
But I gotta say it just doesn't compare to how I was taught.
This book was a supplement for my classes, not the material.
And I say that in favor of the teachers, not myself.
They presented the concepts and techniques at an extremely high level that I have not seen anywhere else and I think may be difficult, but not at all impossible, to get out of a book.
Of course that doesn't really matter tho.
The best thing you can do to learn animation is DO IT A LOT.
Create processes that give results.
Use the basics to do creative things.

I've actually started an animation/GraphicsGale blog where I plan to detail as much as I know as thoroughly as possible.
I'm attempting to port over many of the posts I've done here and attempt to explain them in further detail.
But it will be sometime before it is complete or even contains half the topics I'd like to cover.
It's a bit of a mess at the moment, much of it doesn't make total sense, but everyone is welcome to visit.
Check back later for updates.
http://ppdaniatlas.blogspot.com/

My aim is not to replace other animation sources. (altho I will be covering much of the basic common knowledge to be thorough)
Animators Survival Kit and others are well accomplished and I recommend that anyone check them out.
I'd like to present animation techniques from a slightly different perspective than that of other animation tutorials.
My hope is that it will be helpful to others.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:25:38 am by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline jams0988

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 03:22:24 am
You're a good guy, Pixel. =)
And I can second the recommendation on The Animator's Survival Kit. It's the only good book on animation I've seen. It gets right to the point, with lots of great examples. I don't remember seeing the stutter technique in it, though!
But I am going through it again, so maybe I'll find it this time...if it's in there, I mean!
Looking forward to your blog posts, PPP. Your posts remind me of the Animation Survival Kit. They're all quick and to the point, and almost all show things that are novel to me. ^ ^
And I'm honored my crappy art made it into your grid post, hahah! X3

Psiweapon: the staggering animation is working really well for your guy. Well done!

Offline Ai

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 05:15:54 am
IMO that sweat is a bit hyperactive.. slowing it down could improve things. example edit:


That also gives an opportunity to a) make the motion more interesting and less linear, and
b) add some more time when the sweat drop isn't there (having it constantly falling is pretty distracting)

EDIT:and, if you change the eye style slightly, you can add eye twitch/shift, which really adds to the 'nervous' impression:
rough edit:
(other edits are present, but don't take them as any more than experimentation.)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 06:43:22 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Bissle

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 10:05:58 am
I think the walk animation could use more bounce. Even something as simple as moving the frames with the legs farthest apart down 1 pixel would do the trick.

vs.

Likin' the concept of your character and the style you chose. The new stagger is an improvement. Keep working on this. ;)

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 02:54:48 pm
Updates:


Added an additional frame to the shooting animation, with the gun turned 45º, as per PixelPileDriver's. Also removed the sweat drop to prevent conflict with hair motion (Grimsane's advice) Also, featuring the sweat bead in ALL animations kinda spoils the point.


Added bobbing of a jumpy sort (Grimsane, Pypebros, Bissle) and tried a slower, more irregular sweat drop (Ai)

Thanks all for the comments and advice, more of this character to come.

@PixelPiledriver:
I have one suggestion for your graphics gale blog: Make a lasso tool tutorial, I'll be damned if I have the slightest idea how the hell it works.

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 03:11:08 pm
Really really enjoying this thread. 

Fire animation seems a bit like he's pulling the gun towards him against the gun's momentum rather than the recoil being the other way around (him fighting against it coming towards).  Almost like he's pulling the sword from the stone at the moment. 

Just realised this is probably because of where the animation's looping, but might still be best to show idle > firing in one anim to see it better in context?

Offline PypeBros

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 07:40:01 pm
I took the opportunity to check a "theory of mine" according which it's easier to build walk/run cycles when one start with 6 frames:
<- me | ref ->

Note that I solely focused on feet. I didn't even checked the hair/gun/jacket animation remained consistent.
I just used one frame where the foot is "passing" (which is also my contact frame) and two frames around the extreme positions, to have a pendulum effect.

I let you judge whether it's better or not: I'm not confident enough on such things.

Offline Psiweapon

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Re: [WIP] Platformer Reluctant Hero [C+C]

Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 02:32:06 am

THREAD NECRO!  :crazy:

Lately I've been toying with Construct 2 and since I've already managed to have the
red jacket character walking around and shooting now I want bad guys to kill, so I'm
starting this robot



and the separate frames



Thoughts, suggestions? So far I think the shading on the legs is too irregular and different from
one frame to the next, but the motions themselves flow more or less well (in my eyes at least)

Offline Psiweapon

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Hi guys!  ::)

Sorry for the double post, but I'll just keep stuffing this thread with new material until someone willing
to give some advice or crit shows up. Or even notices the thread, since it's months old!

The robot has arms now! Stretched forward, zombie style. It's a zombie robot.




And here is the spritesheet:



I'm quite satisfied with the traction the legs have (even if the lighting in the legs is pretty haphazard), but
the arms... I think the foreground arm is one pixel too low in a couple of frames (when both arms are at their
lowest point)

Offline PypeBros

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The robot has arms now! Stretched forward, zombie style. It's a zombie robot.
Ha ha! ** MEMORY ** ... ** MOORE MEMORY! ** ((C) JMJ)



Shading the rear arm darker could help readability, btw.

Quote
I'm quite satisfied with the traction the legs have (even if the lighting in the legs is pretty haphazard), but
the arms... I think the foreground arm is one pixel too low in a couple of frames (when both arms are at their
lowest point)
Since it's a bot, you're allowed to pick any move that will make the open "hands" more readable. Red-colored claws, for instance, are also an option.

Offline DOT33102

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Omg I realy love the GFX style :D also the animation :D especially the sweating and hesitating part Lol great job :D by the way If I would give an advice on the necro robot I would add some glance on the metal like the one you see in mirrors when light falls on it :D

Offline Conzeit

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Hey Psiweapon =) I really like the idea of the scaredy hero, I'm sorry I didnt find this topic before because I would've been crit'n the hell out of you if I had found it...I still think there are a lot more things you could to to make the scaredyness more genuine...if that interests you.

The current zombie robot looks perfect, it's a simple animation but it achieves exactly what you set it out to do, you're really gaining some traction on this animation thang yourself =D

Funny little trivia: that typical zombie walk comes from Frankenstein, specifically it comes from a frankenstein that was blinded at the beggining of the movie, so he walked with his arms stretched out because he was trying not to stumble into things. EXCEPT in a re-edit they cut out the scene where they showed that had been blinded, so everyone just imitated that blind person motion for no reason whatosever...prolly cause it just looks creepy n cool :p

Offline Seiseki

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Woha, how did I miss this thread?
Great stuff in here, keep it up! :)