AuthorTopic: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels  (Read 16152 times)

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

on: July 05, 2012, 11:03:26 pm
*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:21:27 pm by AlexHW »

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 11:29:20 pm
*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:21:35 pm by AlexHW »

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 11:54:50 pm
*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:21:45 pm by AlexHW »

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 12:39:35 am
I just watched those 3 videos, despite the fact that I should be sleeping.

Here are some objections:

  • Pixels do not have a mind and it is also not workable metaphor in any way.
  • Round screens would be a lot less space efficient than Rectangular or square ones.
  • Any way you construct a screen you would have to have some regular structure to the pixels, unless they are really organic in a way that they can rearrange themselves in realtime and PHYSICALLY. I don't see that happen anytime soon.
  • If you would overlap pixels you would get A LOT of fringing and bleeding and the circularity would not help to make this more controllable.
  • Looking at a picture on a screen looks pretty much the same as looking at a photo, you get the same visual input if you are a bit away from the screen. Circular pixels would not improve that in any way.
  • What improves clarity is higher DPI. My monitor has a DPI of 92ish, the iDevice retina displays have a DPI of over 300. You can not even see the pixels with your naked eye at all. This advance will come to end user screens with time as well
  • To make a pixel you need subpixels unless you want to make a system that can deliver a specific colour to each pixel without the need to be mixed. So how would you arrange your subpixels inside a round pixel without wasting even more space and cause fringing and so on? You could make the subpixels to be thirds and like pieslices. I strongly believe that that would lead to more fringing than it would be worth.
  • If I want to look at reality, you know what, I look at reality and not at my screen. I can take a walk and interact with what we call reality.
  • At this point it feels to me that you are trolling for attention for whatever reason.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 01:01:31 am
*
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 11:21:59 pm by AlexHW »

Offline Friend

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 288
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 01:15:48 am

  • What improves clarity is higher DPI. My monitor has a DPI of 92ish, the iDevice retina displays have a DPI of over 300. You can not even see the pixels with your naked eye at all. This advance will come to end user screens with time as well

Does this bit foreshadow the impending death of the medium? 

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 01:19:05 am
Sorry, but no. A square is just as real as a circle. You are just playing semantics, really.

And I would like to see you sit down and actually come up with a logical configuration of a pixel matrix for a circular screen and then visualise how that would actually be better at displaying lines or anything really than squares at high DPI counts can. If you would have the same DPI with round vs square pixels i posit that the round screen would have a lot more wobbly looking image, unless you just put the round pixels in a square grid, in which case you would have a darker image with otherwise the same result.

I suggest you actually sit down a bit and think your ideas through instead of just blurting them out once you get them.
At least that is the impression you are making. You made 94 videos since the 23rd of may. That is over 2 videos a day on average. And it does not look like you are getting much if any real feedback on them. If this is somehow a substitute for real human interaction for you then I would suggest to find some friends IRL and hang out with them. Just a suggestion.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 01:23:07 am

  • What improves clarity is higher DPI. My monitor has a DPI of 92ish, the iDevice retina displays have a DPI of over 300. You can not even see the pixels with your naked eye at all. This advance will come to end user screens with time as well

Does this bit foreshadow the impending death of the medium? 

Not really. You can hardly see the pixels on modern screens as compared to stuff that was around 10 or so years ago. people still make pixelart. Pixelart has been and will keep on declining in terms of professional usage for applications. But right now pixel specific knowledge is (and I think will stay to be) important for graphic design in icons and such. Look at the tool icons in Photoshop. They are not really pixelart, have a lot of shades and are very smooth. But they show understanding of pixel level detail, and they have to, because they are quite small. Even if the DPI is 3 times higher you need to make things sharp where it has to be. So this kinda stuff will keep it's value.

As far as games go it will become a style choice and also has to do with ease of production.
And the hobby sector I think will always persist. Just as people still make lowpoly stuff for the fun of it and even more so just as people still make etchings or wood cuts and so on.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Friend

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 288
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 01:29:42 am

  • What improves clarity is higher DPI. My monitor has a DPI of 92ish, the iDevice retina displays have a DPI of over 300. You can not even see the pixels with your naked eye at all. This advance will come to end user screens with time as well

Does this bit foreshadow the impending death of the medium? 

Not really. You can hardly see the pixels on modern screens as compared to stuff that was around 10 or so years ago. people still make pixelart. Pixelart has been and will keep on declining in terms of professional usage for applications. But right now pixel specific knowledge is (and I think will stay to be) important for graphic design in icons and such. Look at the tool icons in Photoshop. They are not really pixelart, have a lot of shades and are very smooth. But they show understanding of pixel level detail, and they have to, because they are quite small. Even if the DPI is 3 times higher you need to make things sharp where it has to be. So this kinda stuff will keep it's value.

As far as games go it will become a style choice and also has to do with ease of production.
And the hobby sector I think will always persist. Just as people still make lowpoly stuff for the fun of it and even more so just as people still make etchings or wood cuts and so on.

I like the the true point you made about understanding of pixel level detail and tiny detail will always remain.  But then I asked myself if computers eventually lose the visual pixel, and eventually all old computers will become broken beyond repair, wouldn't *that* kill the medium?  And then I questioned whether or not as long as we have computers, we could always *simulate* old pixel resolutions, just like people today make art in outdated resolutions on new hardware.  Sorry, I'm not really old enough or have had the exposure to computers to know near as much as I should about them...

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Circular Pixels to defeat the Square Pixels

Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 01:35:01 am
I do not see the pixelformat of screens changing anytime soon. It has been around since ages now in terms of computer time. There is no reason to change pixels into anything but square, from a backward compatibility point of view alone. Imagine changing to some quite different format and then viewing old images, or just running Windows 7 on some screen which has a different setup for whatever reason. It would be clusterfuck. That is reason alone not to change anything even if there may be a better solution. Higher DPI is all that is really needed to circumvent the shortcomings of square pixels. So that is the future.

On a sidenote to that. The higher the resolution and DPI will get the closer will we get to emulating old CRT screens in terms of visuals through stuff like pixel shaders. And the higher the res and DPI the closer we get to circumventing the native resolution/fixed aspect problem LCD/OLED screens have.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.