AuthorTopic: GR#106 - Grimoire - Character Artworks / RPG Base  (Read 23410 times)

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Grimoire - Conceptual Art C&C

Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 05:56:47 pm
Aquaman lives in the sea and doesn't look even remotely fishy.  Just sayin'.  :)
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Offline Seiseki

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Re: Grimoire - Conceptual Art C&C

Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 06:15:44 pm
Expectations can sometimes be extremely strong, as seen in this thread.
I recently watched a GDC talk about the art of Diablo III where they said that they did 75% of what you'd expect and then a 25% twist, to avoid following the norm and make things more interesting.

I'd say this is 25% following expectations and 75% twist :P

In this case, I'd be a bit worried about people assuming that the race are desert dwelling dark/night-elves. (that was my first thought, and that the skin color relates to magic)
It might just be because I think that PixelPiledriver's ears and tail looks awesome, but I'd recommend that you at least add a fin somewhere. :P
And because I think it's important that the art reinforces the backstory and setting, which sorta makes both the art and setting stronger by complementing each other.
Granted, the people on these boards are designers and quite picky, but you don't want to risk your players reacting that way..  
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 06:20:55 pm by Seiseki »

Offline Blaze Enigma

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 10:14:46 pm
I hope no one minds, but I am going to post various pieces of art from Grimoire lol as it is easier than cluttering the forums with my posts, and I tend to work on more than one thing at a time.
P.S Sorry If I forgot to mention this game is an ORPG which has just recently started production.

- I added a fin, but it looks quite odd lol


- Character Template
This is the template I will use for making the various races, I hope its obvious that it is human lol, I am currently working on COMBAT, but it is to WIP to post, but I have completed the walk cycle, which I tend to consider the hardest part of a base





And just in case someone wishes to see it frame by frame, each direction is consistent of 8.


Opinions? ^^

Offline e4r

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 03:38:02 am
There should deffinatley be chest and shoulder movements. Watch how a person walks and you'll notice there torso doesn't stay in one place

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 04:20:18 am
Quote
Aquaman lives in the sea and doesn't look even remotely fishy.  Just sayin'.  
Its a very subtle amount of visual theme but his old costume has scales and fins:

Some of his other designs are less fishy.

Quote
form as derived from fuction
Yes!
Function and form go hand in hand.
What's it for?
What's it do?
How does it look?
Does how it looks affect what it does?
Does what it does affect how it looks?
These are important questions when coming up with stuff.

Quote
I added a fin, but it looks quite odd lol
Function and form are probly why you think the fin looks silly.
You've added a form but are unsure of the function.
Why did you put it there?
There are different levels of function.
Does it help him swim? <---- function of action
Does it make him more fish like? <----- function of theme
Does it balance the composition of his overall shape? <------ function of art
Does it just look cool? <------ funciton of appeal
Be self aware of why you are adding a prop or feature.
It will help give you direction for the specific feature you are working on.
You'll need to convince yourself to alleviate the feeling of silliness.

Quote
but I do apologize for not giving any detail/information as to where the race lives ect.
No need to apologize!
I just wanted to point out that expectation has an affect on perception.
Make the design your own and have fun with it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 04:26:00 am by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #15 on: June 15, 2012, 06:15:09 am
Its a very subtle amount of visual theme but his old costume has scales and fins

Yeah, but he himself looks indistiguisable from a human being. Anyone can dress up as Aquaman (although having seen some fans dress up as him as conventions, some are more succesful than others...seriously if you want to dress up as a superhero, at least work out a bit...)

The 'classic' depiction of mermaids always seemed odd to me.  Simply being like they chopped a person and a fish in half and stuck them together.  I have seen other designs where they try to blend a bit more fishiness into the top half such as gills and fins though.
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Offline Grimsane

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #16 on: June 15, 2012, 12:54:03 pm
oh wow my post got deleted before posting... Retype:
the animations look quite fluent and on their own they seem fine, but here are some issues
Centre of gravity is off:

in the sideview, the arms seem proportionately shorter, and is exacerbated by an extremely low elbow joint. and as i said "on their own" the sideview in particular seems a bit mismatched perspective and proportionally compared to the downward and upward angles
also a quick edit pulling the legs back 2-3 pixels on each frame, and shaving 1 pixel from the height, however didn't adjust anything else:

ed: I also noticed on the contact of the right foot his leg grows 1 pixel longer. and his arms are changing length during their swing a bit too, this is kinda nitpicking it to a state of perfection, you could just assume most people won't notice, but I always think it's better to strive for something more solid and resilient to scrutiny. the shading is quite good, another thing I observed though is that in the upward walk his shading reinforces a far greater stride than the downward simply due to the darker shade of the leading leg going forward.


and on further analysis after staring at for long enough I believe your up/down ones have a bit of mixed perspective, the arms have significantly more foreshortening, as if from a more top down angle. and he legs look more straight on,
which when combined with the fact you might have pushed the tallness quite alot, makes them when possible to interpret a tad like this
edit: rushed example is too extremely exaggerated it could easily be interpreted as insult still extreme but more accurately conveying the effect I witnessed
and a quick colour of my first example just for funsake  super funky hoola time

quite a strut, mainly the perspective issue and long legs vs shorter arms, this image is a rather extreme and exaggerated example but articulates my point sufficiently. perspective is a hard thing to nail, but you have a fluently animated base, the animation definitely reads quite fine, I just think you should work on matching the perspective of the arms and legs, It could be really subtle changes that will resolve it, could just be the long torso

one thing is that editing every single frame is gonna be a bit of a pain D:

okay staring even more I notice one more thing you're arms arc back and forth quite significantly and without any shoulder movement at all looks quite bizarre if paid attention too, and the extreme backward frame seems to convey a strange flick

and again just noticed something else that shadow implies his entire body is twisting, the shadow is being cast down from his entirety not just his legs, just something to consider, oh and also there is a brow region that flickers in the downward animation.

 wow that was alot of critisism :lol: hope you take it all as constructively as it was intended :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 08:27:17 am by Grimsane »

Offline Blaze Enigma

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 09:53:05 am
Muahaha? I think I got it, lol pretty happy with the perspective now.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:46:56 am by Blaze Enigma »

Offline Grimsane

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #18 on: June 16, 2012, 06:36:28 pm
got a pm from the Blaze Enigma requesting for some assistance regarding the issue I raised about the strut/limbo slant. so I'm posting it here.

I believe the the root of the problem is in the chosen perspective, it's hard for me to gauge exactly what you are going for with your angle, without seeing some of the intended environment they reside.

here Is my attempt at resolving the issue without braking the aesthetic too greatly, and I found it almost impossible without adding volume to the top to reinforce a top down perspective, otherwise like you can see at the right side of the image it is extremely very close to being a straight on camera angle. also up the top left I believe the major issue in the animation is the legs bowing outward from the hips, which is an extremely unnatural way to walk (unless you have back bent knee joints/alienesque legs), strangely though if you isolate the legs in the animation it's actually a rather good example of a walk toward a camera with perspective.

I think you should re-evaluate the shadow massing and keep it mostly consistent frame to frame, the twisting is counter to his motion, as I alluded to earlier, my suggestion just have it get 1 pixel rounder and contract 1 pixel on the down and up most extreme frames/bobs (respectively).

well I think you are stepping in the right direction. and I've concluded that with your current sprites, I believe most all the problems can be solved with shading. shade below the midpoint an entire tone darker will reinforce that it is deeper. In a top down context, closer to the ground. I think most my examples are in a completely different style and angle. I personally don't use bases or create my own, which maybe i should! I just make a fully rendered character sprite, then make variations and new ones based on the established style, and anime/manga style is not my strength D: but It is quite appealing in yours, possible view angle issues aside. ironically I think one issue with the hip and leg width  in particular is pixel related, in vectors for example at twice the resolution you could refine the skinny tall proportions and they'd likely work without hitch

also even my examples have flaws and anatomic issues but hopefully you can use them collectively as reference to see what works better to improve your own.

Offline Blaze Enigma

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Re: Grimoire - Art C&C

Reply #19 on: June 16, 2012, 08:59:58 pm
got a pm from the Blaze Enigma requesting for some assistance regarding the issue I raised about the strut/limbo slant. so I'm posting it here.

I believe the the root of the problem is in the chosen perspective, it's hard for me to gauge exactly what you are going for with your angle, without seeing some of the intended environment they reside.

here Is my attempt at resolving the issue without braking the aesthetic too greatly, and I found it almost impossible without adding volume to the top to reinforce a top down perspective, otherwise like you can see at the right side of the image it is extremely very close to being a straight on camera angle. also up the top left I believe the major issue in the animation is the legs bowing outward from the hips, which is an extremely unnatural way to walk (unless you have back bent knee joints/alienesque legs), strangely though if you isolate the legs in the animation it's actually a rather good example of a walk toward a camera with perspective.

I think you should re-evaluate the shadow massing and keep it mostly consistent frame to frame, the twisting is counter to his motion, as I alluded to earlier, my suggestion just have it get 1 pixel rounder and contract 1 pixel on the down and up most extreme frames/bobs (respectively).

well I think you are stepping in the right direction. and I've concluded that with your current sprites, I believe most all the problems can be solved with shading. shade below the midpoint an entire tone darker will reinforce that it is deeper. In a top down context, closer to the ground. I think most my examples are in a completely different style and angle. I personally don't use bases or create my own, which maybe i should! I just make a fully rendered character sprite, then make variations and new ones based on the established style, and anime/manga style is not my strength D: but It is quite appealing in yours, possible view angle issues aside. ironically I think one issue with the hip and leg width  in particular is pixel related, in vectors for example at twice the resolution you could refine the skinny tall proportions and they'd likely work without hitch

also even my examples have flaws and anatomic issues but hopefully you can use them collectively as reference to see what works better to improve your own.

Thanks ^^ for taking your time to edit my base, I took your concept of depth, and did as you said so, I really like it now, lol.


As a side note, I would just like to thank everyone who has made a reply to this post, and I will update the concept art I made above soon, I am simply attempting to get this base out of the way lol.

- Slight Edit

« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 09:38:00 pm by Blaze Enigma »