AuthorTopic: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene  (Read 31391 times)

Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #20 on: June 08, 2012, 01:16:45 am
After a break from my computer, I came back and I agree with what you said.  So I lightened it up more:



Not sure if I really want to go for show colors, though; they just seem rather saturated.  I'm likely to keep on playing around with these even more :)  But I think for now I'm going to go back to working on the scene and the character themselves;  I'll keep the color count at 16 while I do this so that it remains easy to change colors later.

Offline Seiseki

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 01:32:53 am
Honestly, I don't see why you'd want to go with less saturation, but you should at least up the contrast, right now it's just dull.
It looks like it has a gray transparent layer over it.

Offline Ashbad

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 02:00:39 am
Quick color switch to see if we're thinking the same thing:



(I just used GiMP to edit the colors; I'm going to have to do a manual (like I have been doing), decent color swatch when I do the color switch for real, but for now I just wanted to get an idea out there quick)

I personally still favor the more dull one, but perhaps this quick switch has too much contrast for your taste as well, and therefore I need to experiment and find a middleground.

Offline Seiseki

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 02:26:35 am
I'd go with something more like this:



I'm not that good with colors though, I think the darkest skin tone might be a bit too dark..

Offline Conzeit

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 07:07:57 am
it's not that the leg is hard to shade, it's just that's the bodypart where you noticed that your shading doesn't really make sense.

MLP is a show animated with a paper puppet animation techinque, so all the drawings are mostly 2D curves ( circles instead of spheres ) and the shading is designed to support this. You are using more 3d shading than the show, but you're still drawing thinking in 2D. THAT's what's jarring about the drawing, not really anything particular about that leg, the leg is just the place where you noticed.

I honestly think the best thing you could do to improve this is go and draw some cylinders cones and balls and then redraw this while thinking of what shapes make up the pony and how they would conect with eachother. For example when a cylinder connects to a sphere the connection would be circular. Maybe a plasticine model would be a good idea too.


Here's an edit to illustrate. This is just pointing the direction you should go, I only redrew the hair to fit what I'm saying but ideally you should redraw more parts to make it better. Another thing I tweaked was to make the darkest shade less saturated and blue-ish compared to the rest of the ramp because it's getting some radiosity from all the sky, clouds and ocean. Not sure that's a particularly good idea here or that this is a great pallete, just sayin' in case you might wonder.

Offline Ai

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 07:40:12 am

I apologize for the 2x zoom on this, but that's how I'm planning on displaying it eventually on dA/PJ; so, I'm trying to look at it at the right zoom level throughout the whole process to keep in mind that idea.
By a rough guess, you're currently using either Graphics Gale or Photoshop, right?

May I recommend Grafx2? It has the interesting option to set 'pixel scale' (ranging from 1x1 to 4x4), which applies to the entire GUI including the image display. When you combine this with the split-screen zoom, it seems very useful for constantly keeping a good sense of the picture's appearance at 2x. (since '100%' zoom becomes that 2x, or whatever, size.)

(ah, also, do you realize PJ has zooming built in too?)

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@jengy: At first I thought your suggestion was dumb, since I had the anatomy right already... but then I realized how wonderful your idea was.  You'll notice that I rounded out the butt more in my latest quick edit, and it looks a lot more interesting now.  I've never taken any art classes before, so I have next to no teaching on perspective (I'm going to fix that this summer however!), but from that simple edit you made I feel I've already learned to think in more of a cross-planar way, so that every plane (i.e. the one created by the back legs/butt, the side of her coat, the ones created by the sections of her face) works together with the other planes in a fluid motion.
It's like I said when someone asked how I did the fur so well on this -- "I just run [curved] lines through everything and make sure it all flows together". Actually, I didn't say that last bit. I think they would have got the idea better if I had  :lol:

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@yaomon17: not exactly the style I'm going for, but I find it interesting how you shaded the tail in general (same with the mane), it'll help me when I finally get around to taking what has been Ai's suggestion for a few posts now and make it into reality :)

@Ai:  Not a fan of the dithering in the shadow, but I think I may have to add a darker shadow shade in there somewhere to define it better.  Thanks for the tips on the colors, it prompted me to "research" into color theory at school today, and I changed the palette around a lot.  I think that after this edit that I've gotten much better at picking colors with the H/S/L values, and I've realized that I was using insanely saturated colors (and I played with them as a result).  I didn't like how you used blue as the outline, I settled with more of a color that had a hue closer to the orange color (it ended up being something like a hue of 230 IIRC) and I think it's a bit less radical against the orange while still having the shadowy effect.
Sure, all of my edits are approximate. Like, I didn't intend to suggest using dithering per se, just the idea of a better defined shadow + that it should use a cloud tone mixed with a body color. You've achieved better contrast with the colors you chose, actually -- I had a hard time keeping the shading from looking overly segmented, so I ended up with low contrast

Also, what Conceit said. 3d shading isn't too much of a problem, since the ponies of FiM are surprising anatomically correct -- in a SD way -- but you still need to think about the lighting and shapes 3d-ly. (I maintain that my more recent edit of the lower leg is correct.)

Note that now you've changed the colors, the eyes are drawing a lot of attention since they stand out. This is an overall picture balance issue... mainly brought on, I guess, by using FiM style eyes unchanged while upping the realism on the rendering of everything else.

While I was writing this I notice you made another update on the color. haven't looked at that one yet.

Oh.. have you looked at the r/MLPdrawingschool/ 'Useful links'? We recently got some nice color theory info links there (http://www.huevaluechroma.com/ was my contribution).

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@Regulus Awesome: I would do MLP-styled clouds, but first of all those are really simple and boring (IMHO), and I want to kind of place Scootaloo in a bit more realistic environment ^_^


As for what I know I still need to do for sure:

- Anti-alias clouds completely
If you're willing to add a few more shades, you could make the BG cloud decently defocused, which would add to the sense of perspective.

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- FIX HER TAIL! :P  (been lazy on this one, I'll admit)
- Anti-alias different shades in Scootaloo, A-A her against the BG very slightly, and selout her outline (on second thought... just read a few topics here about selout.  Probably not a good idea to use it for this, or really at all.  Helm seems to condemn it for making ugly pixel art, and from the insight he gave I'm just dropping the idea)
Yeah, selout's not useless.. but it's a visual compromise that it's preferable to not make if you can.

Also, the idea of having selout on something that is not a sprite (ie. has no transparent parts).. is an idea that doesn't compute anyway -- we only have a name for this effect because it's noticeable in sprite edges when placed on a significantly different BGcolor than what they were designed for.

(note that 'shaded outlines' is not exactly the same thing. It can be used on things that are not sprites, and for sprites, it has much of the same effect of preventing the sprite from merging with the background that selout does. Also it usually doesn't look ugly.)

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I think a fair gauge for the completedness of this is probably around 60% ^_^ I'm excited with how this is turning out, and the incredible amount of things I'm learning from you guys.  I honestly have no idea how I'd learn so fast without you.
You contribute to that too, y'know. It's a lot easier to put the effort into doing edits when I can tell the person who's going to be looking at them is genuinely interested and willing to learn.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 07:44:04 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Cupcake

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #26 on: June 08, 2012, 08:46:00 am
By a rough guess, you're currently using either Graphics Gale or Photoshop, right?

May I recommend Grafx2? It has the interesting option to set 'pixel scale' (ranging from 1x1 to 4x4), which applies to the entire GUI including the image display. When you combine this with the split-screen zoom, it seems very useful for constantly keeping a good sense of the picture's appearance at 2x. (since '100%' zoom becomes that 2x, or whatever, size.)

If I'm understanding you correctly, you can kind of do something like this in Photoshop as well. I'm still using Photoshop 7 so the exact names of things may be different in newer versions, but if you go to Window -> Documents -> New Window it will open another window of whatever document you have selected. All windows of the document will show changes, but you can have them at different zoom levels. If I'm working in Photoshop on something that's going to be at a different size, or if I'm working zoomed in, it's very helpful.

vvv: Ahh, I get what you mean now! Well, if anyone else is like me and missed the split-screen zoom in Photoshop maybe this'll be useful. :P
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 09:04:43 am by Cupcake »

Offline Ai

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #27 on: June 08, 2012, 08:58:05 am
^ that's the split screen zoom, only. Photoshop lacks a usable pixel size option (it sort of supports it, via the DPI options, but it's nowhere near as friendly and usable as the Grafx2 implementation)
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline r1k

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #28 on: June 08, 2012, 10:12:21 am
I had a go at the colors, and tried adding a rainbow

Offline Ai

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Re: [WIP] Adult Scootaloo + Cloudy Scene

Reply #29 on: June 08, 2012, 11:07:21 am
Geez, sunset colored edits seem pretty popular. They're pretty complimentary color-wise, and also pretty hard to look at. I'll have a go at another suggested edit for the colors that's more mild and less brutalizing to the iconic Scootaloo colors.
Well, we don't need to knock out the saturation so hard either .. there are a number of options. some midtones need to pick up a bit of blue, that's all.


I'm happy with this, color-wise. it werxes ;)

Rainbow works surprisingly well... may have problematic connotations in this situation though. Maybe just a rainbow fading out (most visible on picture edge, faded out by 1/3 of the width) would fill that corner appropriately? Symbolism of win? VMMMY.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:48:00 am by Ai »
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.