AuthorTopic: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!  (Read 25353 times)

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #30 on: June 09, 2006, 05:16:26 pm
I think maybe what helm and adarias were trying to get at is that while muscles can only become larger or smaller, you CAN focus on specific muscles (which change the shape of your body) and more importantly you can also increase muscle strength WITHOUT increasing muscle size.  Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength.  How many of these bodybuilders could actually compete with the relatively flabby-looking atheletes who dominate the olympics and "world's strongest man" competitions?

EDIT - btw Helm this looks friggin sweet - very nice anatomy and the color mixing is stellar, very inpsirational

Offline Helm

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #31 on: June 09, 2006, 05:32:46 pm
This guy seems to fit the part nicely except for the torso seems a bit too skinny to have spent a life supporting those arms.  larger, tougher arms = larger, tougher upper body.

I've decided to tone down the arms instead of tone the legs up (although I'll probably add a pixel or two to the outer leg too). And define the muscle groups just a tad more of the outer arm.

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The helm would surely reflect the red lightsource more than the thigh but i don't think it should

Exactly. A case of unrealistic effect that is too interesting to really 'fix'. It's fine.

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I've never met any ancient Greek warriors. I'm basing my observations on Greek art (look at the terracotta amphora paintings) and what I know about fitness.

Anthropologic analysis of data we have from the period concur with me. First of all, the greeks were short, short-lived people with quite more darkened skin than they indoeuropean descent would suggest and blah blah blah. But this side of the conversation has gone on too much since I'm not really pretending my Spartan is really accurate to begin with. The arms are huge in length, to begin with. The shoulders are awfully overtoned. I should have made a stocky oily hairy brown man if I wanted to make a Spartan for real. This is okay for iconic representation without going overboard in either the gross fascist man of steel ideal or the classical contrapost-heavy ideal (which I personally like but find boring). I'm in a stupid middle ground, and it's fine.

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wow helm, you've went and done it. you two came up with a unique idea,

Ptoing mostly.

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Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength.

quoted for truth.

Update and probably final, tonight.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #32 on: June 09, 2006, 06:15:32 pm
hmm, i painted in some red reflections of the sword on his helm, leaving the areas i thought wouildnt be hit as much by the light, and the grouping of the red and blue dithering only makes it look cooler in my eyes.

Offline crab2selout.png

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #33 on: June 09, 2006, 06:57:06 pm
Love it, Helm!

One thing that I'm wondering about is his ass. I don't have any specific expertise in the anatomy area - although I did try checking myself out in a mirror for this ::) - but that area seems just a bit too flat. Where are the bum pads?

Anyways, your call on that, just figured I would try mentioning it

Other than that - and something about the leg, but I'll wait for your next version to see if the leg isn't still WIP - I love this. Both the blue and black versions are awesome, each bringing their own interesting feel to the piece. Blue is neat in how it brings the piece together, but black is great in how it brings out your colours. I also find black is much more interesting of the two as a secondary(or is it ambient) light source.

Offline big brother

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #34 on: June 09, 2006, 07:39:17 pm
I think maybe what helm and adarias were trying to get at is that while muscles can only become larger or smaller, you CAN focus on specific muscles (which change the shape of your body) and more importantly you can also increase muscle strength WITHOUT increasing muscle size.

Muscles groups do not work independently of each other. A stronger back will give you an edge when you work chest. Building stabilizing muscles will make exercises with primary muscle groups easier. It's near impossible to build a good chest without working your legs (since working your largest muscle group, quadriceps, is the fastest way to stimulate your body's testosterone production). Your last statement runs contrary to every kinesiology study I've read. I would like to know how you reached that conclusion... If you're thinking about body weight exercises or high rep-low weight, that's a ratio issue, and those do increase muscle mass (just not very quickly or effeciently).

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Bodybuilders/models tend to focus on the muscle groups that LOOK the best, and they work very hard at increasing their size, NOT their strength.  How many of these bodybuilders could actually compete with the relatively flabby-looking atheletes who dominate the olympics and "world's strongest man" competitions?

They don't compete because they are different sports. Gymnastics involves building muscles, too, but those athletes don't compete in these sports either. The difference between the two are akin to the difference between Kada karate (form) demonstration and karate match. The athlete needs a solid foundation in karate for both endeavors, and there is a little crossover between the two, but the goals are very different. Likewise, bodybuilding pits the athletes against a hypothetical visual ideal, while weightlifting pits them against each other using weight as a judge.

Let me break this down.
Bodybuilders - the goal is a shredded, muscular look (super low body fat). Because the competitions are more like dog shows and less like an athletic tournament, they dehydrate themselves for their routine (to further muscular definition). In the off-season, these men are typically 30-50 pounds heavier, and put up a great deal of weight to increase their muscle mass. I will repeat this because it refutes your point: a bodybuilder must be strong to increase his size.
Here is an example:
Nasser El Sonbaty is a pro bodybuilder, and in this picture he is holding 380 pounds. The muscle is not all show, trust me, that's a good deal of weight.
http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/nasser_sonbaty/sonbaty12.jpg

Weightlifters/World Strongest Man - the end goal is raw strength, the ability to move heavy weights or hold the second digit of a TUT. They are not awarded points for their physique. For these rigourous physical trials, they MUST keep hydrated and often will rely on higher fat percentages to give themselves an edge when dealing with heavier weights. (For example if there are two men of equal strength but one weighs 50 pounds more, the heavier one will have an easier time pushing over a 450 pound column).

Mariusz Pudzianowski has won the World's Strongest Man competition three times.
http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/2623/gallery131296260ed.jpg (on the left)
http://www.pudzian.pl/foto/235.jpg (on the right)
He weighs a bit more than Nasser, but is much stronger (record bench is at 606 lb) though less cut. However, they are both strong men, no matter how much you claim that muscle can be for show.

This is the biggest thread hijack I've ever contributed to. To increase my post's relevance: I think the RGB experiment is a great idea for the aesthetic. Without the black, it reminds me of a relief sculpture, with shapes protruding from the visual plane.

Helm: I agreed with the descisions you made regarding the look of your character. The anatomy is another issue altogether, something I did not address.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 09:29:35 pm by big brother »

Offline Sereth

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #35 on: June 09, 2006, 09:32:25 pm
I will take the approach of someone completely unrelated to art who finds this piece on the internet.
Once I got past the overload of brightness, I found myself liking it. The colors work together well and the type of dithering is nice.

Offline Helm

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #36 on: June 09, 2006, 10:20:04 pm


quasi-final. This is when 'wip' is no longer an excuse. Adressed a lot of critique, both from here and from private sessions with Ptoing. I thank you all. Pixelopolis is the only place on the internet that I know of that does this sort of thing consistently.

Big Brother, let's just say that regardless of the discussion, this http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/2623/gallery131296260ed.jpg person, and his type, sicken me.

Offline Darien

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #37 on: June 09, 2006, 10:32:40 pm


These are the squarey parts I was talking about.  It seems to not occur enough to be a stylistic thing.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #38 on: June 09, 2006, 10:36:27 pm
hey helm not sure if this is intentional or not but the blue kind of particle effect in his left (our right) armpit kinda makes it look like his armpit is webbed.  a small edit there to make the ribcage look like it goes up toward his back more than out toward his arm would be great!

Offline Xion

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Re: Let the computer aesthetic burn your mind!

Reply #39 on: June 09, 2006, 10:47:04 pm
On the far arm, either the upper part looks too faded or the forearm looks too vibrant. Either way, the change is too abrupt.