AuthorTopic: GR#195 - Project Entropy - Gameart, Conceptart  (Read 50883 times)

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #40 on: April 20, 2012, 08:44:14 am
I'm considering getting a friend to make a rough 3D model of it and taking a screenshot at an angle for a 2.5D effect  to make it appear more monumental and real, as opposed to the symbolism that happens in most 2D games. Do you guys think it would be worth it?

I sometimes do this, especially if I need to draw at a couple of angles or do rotation on something that's less 'organic'.

example:

(1bit and 2bit)

And the crappy 3d version:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1534394/boats.jpg
(it's pretty lame, some of my very first 3d stuff actually, but it did the job!)..

Some other complex shape animations really benefit from this technique, these would've taken me a lot longer without something 3d to base them on:



For your graphic, it'd probably only work if your graphic's gonna be quite large, else it might be such a mess after scaling down it'll be hard to clean up.  But it's super quick to just make a very simple collection of shapes to use as a perspective guide.

I've used Blender (it's free), it's a little bit tough to get used to, but there's so many tutorials on Youtube. (Warning, tutorials of old versions don't use the same shortcuts and stuff, so be warned there's some frustrations even there, but it's worth learning at least a bit!). I've also tried sketch-up, but I didn't really get on with it as well. 

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #41 on: April 20, 2012, 10:13:48 am
rikfuzz: I only wish I had HALF the 3D skills you have. My incompetency in that department is embarrassing. How long did it take you to make the model? ( how long to learn to be able to, rather)
Also, those sprites are nice. Obviously I'm a fan of 4 colors :]

In other news, Large detailed boss sprites are going to be really hard to animate. If this was any more than 4 colors I would probably have given up a long time ago. Even still it's very easy to get caught up making nice pixel clusters or fiddling with details that will be seen for less than 1/12 of a second.

Offline rikfuzz

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #42 on: April 20, 2012, 10:51:03 am
rikfuzz: I only wish I had HALF the 3D skills you have. My incompetency in that department is embarrassing. How long did it take you to make the model? ( how long to learn to be able to, rather)
Also, those sprites are nice. Obviously I'm a fan of 4 colors :]

I set aside a day to work through the basics of blender with a friend who vaguely knew what he was doing.  I was totally intimidated by 3d for a long time, and still haven't managed to fully rig anything successfully or animate anything, but I managed to learn how to model, unwrap and texture all in that one day which is a pretty good investment. 
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1534394/3dtime.jpg was what I did in that day, although I don't have the textured version).
The boat and sub were what I did after that, and then this model which took me a while, but a fair leap: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1534394/spin_witch_2.gif.  I need to do more!

Boss images look great.  :)  Maybe work out what frames you need and give them a rating based on how long the frame's held for and how frequent, and clean them up to the degree they merit based on that rating. Similar to how inbetweens in TV animation is lower quality than keyframes.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #43 on: April 20, 2012, 08:53:47 pm
Well, I also suck at 3d programs and what I usually do is just...grab some plasticine :p  :lol: That might be specially sacrilegous to someone as educated in arts as yourself but just telling you what I do :p

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #44 on: April 20, 2012, 10:51:27 pm
rikfuzz: I doubt I could do it in a day, but if I did set aside a large amount of dedicated time I could probably make something useful.

Conceit: That's not sacriligeous at all! in fact I hadn't thought of traditional media, but it would probably not work for the given situation: a very architectural thing; but it would be good for bosses and such... which might help me out with this:



animation is such a weakpoint of mine. This is just supposed to be a simple smash. Might re use it for various attacks such as raining down mini black holes or creating a chasm where the impact is for more super gravity force inducing madness. All critique is welcome as I know just enough to know I don't know anything about what I'm doing. Especially wondering about speed/ delays etc

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #45 on: April 21, 2012, 04:02:52 am
here, i made a quick edit to add some power to it. hope you dont mind or nothin'  :crazy:

Offline PixelPiledriver

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #46 on: April 21, 2012, 09:57:25 am
Really like the character!
The style and execution is great.

Your "line of action" is not as strong as it could be.
This is because you have the passive arms sort of working against the focus on the active arms:



By changing the pose a little you can create a more singular and definite, therefore "stronger", line of action.
This works much the same way as composition in designing a static image to create flow and focus.
Focus should generally be directed to the area doing or about to do the most action.
So here we try to change the shape to be more directional:



Your original is 12 frames and my edit is 23:


It's not that huge of a difference but it could get away with less frames if you have major restrictions.
We are both using 3 delays 60fps.

Quote
Especially wondering about speed/ delays etc
Decreasing the delay fps will allow you to get away with more action.
More impact and motion can be added as it all happens faster and flows together better visually.

Increasing the amount of delay means less work.
The animation lasts longer with less drawings.
But "drag shapes" and "multi frames" will be less effective the more time they are shown.

Find a good compromise between your engine/time restrictions, the amount of work you want to do, and how well you need the animation to flow.
Animation with less action does not require as low of delays.
But could still benefit from it of course.

Go look at my edit in the Punchy punch robot fun thread.
That animation runs at only 2 delays 60fps.
This makes it much faster and more room to stuff in action and timing.
However it ended up being 134 frames.
It depends on what you want but generally people agree that less work is favorable, and higher delays can still be made to look really good even with lots of action.

To get more speed you can do whats called a "multi frame".
You can start by drawing all of the frames separately, showing the motion, just as you already have:


Then you can stack them on top of each other all in a single frame:


packing multiple frames together makes the motion happen faster, as they are all shown at once.
At a decent speed your mind will perceive it as a fast motion.
The stacked frame will also clearly show your line of action.

After getting a good idea of the motion, arcs, and line of action, you can stylize this frame.
There are many different ways of representing this visually.
Purely multiple frames, solid drag forms, particle effects, repeating shapes, blur, etc.
It just depends on what you want.

This is how I styled the multi frame in my edit:


Doing more passes you can add cool stuff like particle effects, lighting effects, etc to supplement the motion.
Action and Reaction go hand in hand:


For me pixel animation is all about re-use.
Make finished art.
A few key frames.
Get good motion just using the select tool.
Clean up.
Make another pass.

What you have is a really good start.
Play around, try variations and new things.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 01:17:27 am by PixelPiledriver »
And knowing that it is, we seek what it is... ~ Aristotle, Posterior Analytics, Chapter 1

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #47 on: April 21, 2012, 11:26:14 am
Tuna unleashed: I never mind edits! :D I'm here to learn- and especially in the realm of animation. It's much easier for me to improve and see how to fix things with edits. Thank you!

PixelPiledriver: I'm extremely humbled that you took the opportunity to help me out.  The composition of the lower arms was bothering me and I believe I was just in denial of the need to change them since I had already drawn them x]

The multi frame is genius. I thought I was being clever in the second frame overlapping the arms, and here you go and do it for all of them! I will certainly be taking all of this into account and will be coming back with a much improved animation. I've learned a lot just by examining your edit; thank you. Give this man more positive karma please!

I'm almost too taken back to post this, but I was thinking of having him change into a different form towards the end of the boss battle. Basically just an extra set of limbs to complete the 8 requirement. the multiple arms represented gravitational pull, but the spider analogy lends itself well to a powerful being that mostly controls the web of space-time around it. He's still anthropomorphic here but that could change if I do decide to utilize this in game.

Offline Facet

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #48 on: April 21, 2012, 07:10:16 pm
Woah, Good stuff! The one big crit I have for the anim. is that it completely disregards the diminishing perspective even taking into account anatomical exaggeration up top. I've eyeballed it here quickly but I reckon that the aforementioned sculpt or a mannequin would help a ton here too.



Elsewhere, I love the mats (particularly the purple scheme) and spider-form boss looks great but even more work, even more limbs, I don't envy your workload :P

Edit - Did a less crappy example (than my first posted attempt). Actually, what you have now would work, were the player character on a higher level, say a cliff edge; that might be a smarter way to do things in terms of the ease of animation and the spectacle of his monumental size.

Edit again - Felt like I kinda interrupted the impetus provided by PP's animation sorcery :-X, mocked up the platform thing too.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:39:22 pm by Facet »

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: Project Entropy

Reply #49 on: April 24, 2012, 05:03:54 am
Facet that mock up is awesome... thank you! It would make things easier... I was just about to start animating but I think I need to go the sketchbook for a bit and plan out how the boss battle will go exactly to ensure the animations are compatible. I'm thinking a mid way point between fully utilizing the perspective in your first edit and the practicality of the second. Stay tuned!

edit:


tried to take things into account. Altered the perspective of the arms just a tad as a nod to facet's edit. still got some kinks to work out but I think the recoil does well. I'm rationalizing his attacks as forcing through the cosmos around him to create chasms of super gravity areas. So he doesn't have to actually hit any target, which will allow for a maneuverable quality when it come time to put him in game.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:44:23 am by Ryumaru »