AuthorTopic: Animating! ... crap. (Read 16849 times)

slym · **on:** November 26, 2011, 07:59:39 pm

After finishing http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/66704.htm, I felt that I needed to animate the characters. The mockup itself was one of the only pieces that I actually feel is complete in my gallery. Anyway, this is what I'm currently working on. As you can tell I am not an animator xD

oldest:

newest:

Wes · **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2011, 08:17:18 pm

exaggeate!! bring that arm back more, really stretch the bow out. maybe have him move his torso. there's like no power in that at all, man.

slym · **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:12:31 pm

I tried to exaggerate more, still working on lunging and making it look much more powerful.

Chris2balls · **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:30:19 pm

I'm making an edit, I'll update the post when I'm done.
I have an issue with the current pose: the arm holding the bow should be completely straight.
check this video out.

slym · **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2011, 10:11:41 pm

thanks for the video! It helped out a lot with the arms. Addressing his left arm next, and then increasing the size of the bow.

Phlakes · **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2011, 10:28:23 pm

And his right hand should be up by his face. I know the form too well from Boy Scouts, and he should basically be looking down the arrow when it's drawn.

EDIT: Aha!

Chris2balls · **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2011, 10:35:57 pm

phlakes beat me to it:

(ignore the embarassing and unintentional foot movement)

you may also notice the body is almost lateral when drawing the bow, like shown in the video and in the recurve picture.

slym · **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2011, 11:01:08 pm

Here's an update:

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire4.gif

Made the bow larger, tried to fix the string stretching issue, and I also attempted to straighten the left arm. I should have clarified earlier that the stance is a lunge because he is supposed to be crouching. There is definitely more elegance to the animation when he isn't crouching.

Crist2balls: I am curious how you were able to make it look so much more powerful. How many frames did you use?

[edit] http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire5.gif

Fixed the arms I think. I just still feel like it doesn't show enough finesse.

[edit 2]

I cut out a few frames, hopefully that helped a bit.

Chris2balls: Random epiphany! The reason why yours makes the character look much more skilled is because in my he starts raising the bow before the right hand even touches it!

Chris2balls · **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2011, 11:34:14 pm

I used 7 frames, I believe. I then timed each frame differently.
Remember that the torso faces us as the bow is drawn, and that the hand drawing the bow gets level to the eye, whilst the harm holding the bow is slightly below but parallel to it; you haven't been observant enough whilst watching/pausing the video I linked you to. You may also notice that the arm holding the bow is straight and at its full length during the whole cycle, which I moved up in three frames.

slym · **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2011, 11:51:11 pm

Tried straightening the arms out more. Haven't attempted work on the torso, but mainly because I personally think the sprite is too small for it to make a significant difference with the animation.

Chris2balls · **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2011, 11:58:29 pm

It looks better, but it can look better still!

Quote from: slym on November 26, 2011, 11:51:11 pm

Haven't attempted work on the torso, but mainly because I personally think the sprite is too small for it to make a significant difference with the animation.

Bullshit: right now the pectorals look cut off from the arms, and you can give the impression of the torso facing us by pushing the belt to the left.

Another thing I've picked up on is that the arm that draws the bow, more specifically its upper part, seems rather low in relation to the shoulder, plus seems to have got longer for some reason.

Keep it up!

Phlakes · **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:03:42 am

I think there's one more thing. In Chris' edit, the string looks like it has resistance, which is the most powerful feeling thing when you actually use a bow. if the character pulls the string back instantly it feels loose and weak.

slym · **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:35:10 am

Here's another edit

what I don't know is where his arm should be right after he fires the arrow.

Chris2balls · **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:03:04 am

It's almost there, everything's getting better!

By the way: the back shouldn't arch. Remember what I said about the torso twisting towards us, more to the back. Currently the sense of volume is destroyed by this issue, because:

Yours:
_ arm
| torso
|_ arm

Reference:
I arm
|torso I arm

The bow's string seems to be pulled only when it's straight, whereas it should be pulled when the arrow is taken and the arm goes up.

slym · **Reply #14 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:10:25 am

Haha he looks like a chicken when you focus on the back arching xD About the torso, are you sure this should be the case? oh wait! The whole time I thought you were telling me to make the torso twist away from the viewer. Haha that makes more sense now.

edit

Chris2balls · **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:27:46 am

Okay, that's better but it's still not facing us. I still have the impression there is space between the further shoulder and the bow's string.
I think you could do with an extra frame for drawing the bow after taking the arrow, like Phlakes said.

May I suggest you slide the foot further forward during the animation, a bit like Link in Smash Bros Melee/Brawl?

This is a great improvement from the first version.

slym · **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:30:29 am

I'm unfamiliar with Smash Bros animations, which foot are you talking about moving forward?

Chris2balls · **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:33:20 am

Skip directly to 0:25
It could help for the pose.

slym · **Reply #18 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:40:22 am

I'm not sure that it would help the pose, he is supposed to be crouching, and in that animation of Link, the other leg's knee is on the ground. Unless you were just saying that his forward leg could be moved out more for a more dramatic pose?

Chris2balls · **Reply #19 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:47:10 am

That's what I meant, yes. I wasn't suggesting anything as dramatic as Link's charged pose!
Take note of the torso.

slym · **Reply #20 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:12:21 am

I see what you're saying now.

This is a fix on timing. I'm not sure that I will try to change the pose, but I feel that the torso for the most part is fixed.

Chris2balls · **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:47:03 am

The arm movement is great, but you really don't want to make the torso move, do you? :p
Also: maybe leave a bit of time between aim/shot.

slym · **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:54:58 am

The reason why I'm having so much trouble with the torso is because of his armpit. I can't push the torso any closer towards the viewer because doing so will cause his boobs to go directly beneath his armpit. I can't think of a fix around it :/

This is the most I can do without messing with that issue:

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire15.gif
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire16.gif

I had no clue how to predict what would happen to the string after he releases it. So I deleted it.

Chris2balls · **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2011, 03:51:04 am

Yep, the movement's looking great!

Here's an edit of the torso:

No big deal. Keep going, you're almost there!

I've just noticed the bow doesn't bend back after the string straightens, which makes the shot seem weak.

slym · **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:01:05 am

YES That must have been what it was! I was trying so hard to understand why it looked so weak! I think I'm going to leave the torso where it's at. I really appreciate all the critique and help with it, because it is definitely very defined and has improved quite a bit. I might raise his bow strap thing though like you did in the edit.

Chris2balls · **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:30:07 am

I assume the head movement is WIP, because it looks a little funky.

slym · **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:48:07 am

Yeah here's a more updated version with it:

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire24.gif

edit:

Taken off, done quite a bit of cleaning.

Phlakes · **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:35:01 am

That's improved so much.

I love the subtleties of human movement.

Anyway, one more little touch that might help is to have the bow and string go a bit past their resting point after the release for one frame, to give a sense of vibration.

slym · **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:45:18 am

Haha the oldest one looks like a joke. Here's the animation with the added frame that you were talking about.

Chris2balls · **Reply #29 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:43:08 pm

Yes, I think this is ready for submission. Well done, slym!

Atnas · **Reply #30 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:35:23 pm

I would say the back leg needs smoother movement, and perhaps to lean a little when it first goes out and then ease back into the position.

But really great work slym, and good work in your critiques Phlakes and especially Chris. Chris, have a cookie! This is feature worthy material imo, something we haven't had in a long time, where the improvements were rapid and vast. When we get the newsbox up I'll see what I can do.

But it's not quite done yet! Add that secondary motion I talked about, the leg still chops in and out of that position.

Juninho · **Reply #31 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:13:20 pm

is good! Just think if you put more frames in the legs and more movement of the rope arrow a little more when he shoots the arrow would improve.

Joe · **Reply #32 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:29:37 pm

This is looking really awesome. I have two nitpicks though, one is when he draws the bow, you don't really get a sense of his muscles flexing, and the other is your timing. The quick execution really downplays the power of the bow, and it ends up looking kind of like rubber. Here's an edit to show you what I mean:

...And even still I think more force could be implied.

Chris2balls · **Reply #33 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:38:02 pm

You're right, Atnas. I gave it a go:

I changed the second and last but one frames, but I think it'll have to be done on at least two more frames to look okay.
I love cookies

Ah, Joe ninja'd me. I like what you've done for the muscle contraction!

slym · **Reply #34 on:** November 27, 2011, 03:23:24 pm

Here we go:

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire32.gif

Another edit: trying to give recoil to the shot.

Chris2balls · **Reply #35 on:** November 27, 2011, 03:39:43 pm

It's looking better. You still don't want to move the torso, do you? I did it sloppily in my edit but yeah, have a go.
I'd make the trembling and the shot faster, with a longer pause on the frame where he's just shot, to emphasize on power.

slym · **Reply #36 on:** November 27, 2011, 03:58:39 pm

What I'm worried about is that the pecks will move under his armpit. This is the most I can move his torso without doing that:

(I also sub-pixeled the hand a bit and made the straining less extreme)

Here's one of the frames where the torso was moved 1 pixel too far. (I moved it back to the correct place after), but as you can see the armpit somehow disappears.

Another edit... I noticed that a random dark spot appears under his arm.

(edit #38: added a slight bounce to the wood after release)

Chris2balls · **Reply #37 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:10:16 pm

The reason why you're having issues moving the torso is because you have to flatten the arm drawing the bow to give the impression that the back is being squashed as the arm is pulled backwards. At the same time, more is revealed of the other side of the torso. A good illustration of this, overdramatic as it may be, is Link's charged animation. A bit further in the vid you can see how he charges up. I think it could help!

slym · **Reply #38 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:34:28 pm

I tried to make it move a bit more:

edit: tried to make the belt movement less wonky:

Chris2balls · **Reply #39 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:44:41 pm

It doesn't look quite right yet, I think it could change shape slightly aswell as shifting as it currently is.
Ah, good idea to move the belt!

The arms aren't the same length, it looks rather funny now that I see it lol

slym · **Reply #40 on:** November 27, 2011, 04:47:15 pm

I don't see it, which arm is shorter?

Chris2balls · **Reply #41 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:00:55 pm

slym · **Reply #42 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:07:57 pm

Thanks! It definitely fixed his posture a bit

extended the arm a bit more after the shot. (I forgot to in version 41)

Chris2balls · **Reply #43 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:19:25 pm

For the torso:

Something like this should do, I just ate away at the shade of his pec.

Juninho · **Reply #44 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:41:07 pm

You are almost finished for me

, what is missing is there to improve even the torso, the chest it is very small relative to the body. And there's one thing I found strange, when he turns his right foot, the leg does not seem to turn together, seeming to he broke his leg.

slym · **Reply #45 on:** November 27, 2011, 05:46:15 pm

Thanks! That does work! Finally haha. I was so stuck on trying to figure out how to get that torso to be flatter.

Juninho: Is this better?

Wes · **Reply #46 on:** November 27, 2011, 06:23:17 pm

man this has come so far in just one day. great improvement, man.

i'd love to see what animation you tackle next. a sword? more arrow stuff? a walk cycle?

Chris2balls · **Reply #47 on:** November 27, 2011, 06:25:39 pm

If I were you, I'd give more definition to the arm holding the bow, you know, like give the forearm a shape. I'm not incredibly muscular but when I put my arm out like that my forearm bulges at the top. You could then perhaps add another bulge for for the shoulder, like so:

You could express strength by changing its size in the animation, too.

slym · **Reply #48 on:** November 27, 2011, 06:42:58 pm

Haha yeah I didn't notice it before!

Attempting the Idle now. Obviously I have no clue how to do one.

Chris2balls · **Reply #49 on:** November 27, 2011, 08:53:05 pm

That idle fidgets too much. I think for your character, a subtle subpixel breathing out animation could be pretty cool, without all his body moving.

Fickludd · **Reply #50 on:** November 27, 2011, 09:51:38 pm

Hey, just wanted to drop in and say this is a great thread and very instructive - great work guys!

I think one last thing that could maybe be done with the bow animation is to shift his shadow back slightly as he moves back his point of balance and twists his torso.

In the idle animation I feel like everything is moving at cross purposes just for the sake of movement. You need to do a little research (real fighters or other sprites) to figure out that motion you actually want to convey.

jams0988 · **Reply #51 on:** November 30, 2011, 05:13:16 pm

I agree that there's a bit too much motion in the idle animation. Like Chris said, a slow breathing cycle would probably look better. It looks like you're guy is hyperventilating right now, hahah. He must not be very sure of his aim if he's so nervous!

The firing animation went through some amazing improvement, though. It'd look fine in any professional pixel art game, I think. =)

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AuthorTopic: Animating! ... crap. (Read 16849 times)