GR#079 - RPG Tiles - Chip 16

[Chris2balls]

Hello!

I'm working on an RPG tileset so I can make a few mockups to showcase my palette.
I'm having some difficulties rendering the rock's volume, so I've come here to ask for your help!

Here's the WIP so far:

Mockup:
Here's the palette used:

My main influences are Shawn's 8-bit RPG tiles, Link's Awakening and Final Fantasy 6.


If there is anything else that attracts your attention just say so! 

[Phlakes]

I think it's the vertical lines that keep the rocks from having much volume. Makes them look more like textures on vertical pillars than independent shapes.

[questseeker]

Tiles you might add:

• Tree variations (both the isolated one and the tileable "forest" version); elements like holes, distinct branches, outline variants and bird nests could be arranged to be entirely contained inside one of the sub-tiles.
• Transitions between packed forest and grass, both for the outside edges and to carve paths and glades within. You might plan to use sub-tiles of the isolated tree as transition, but you need to add something for the staggered trees to allow for any width and height of tree patches.
• Flowers, sparser rocks, etc. as grass variations
• Wider windows (2 or more squares: left terminal, 0 or more middle sections, right terminal)
• Gables (facing left, front and right), possibly also in wide variants like wall windows
• Façades without balconies/rails (especially for ground floor use, but also to break balcony "belts" in upper floors into meaningful architecture)
• Stairs and terrace walls matching the pavement tiles, to make cities with plausible barriers and/or that look like they are built on a hill side.

[milleja46]

Those are some good tiles/pixel artwork just a few things i noticed:
1.) you make the rocks on the cliffs and such so much the same that there's no randomness and such
2.) the random dark green grass reveals more so your grid
3.) also there's a sudden change to the town from the wilderness/forest you need to add a more smooth transition between the two...

[Ichigo Jam]

I like the style of this, so I tried a quick edit on your cliffs:

[milleja46]

^ That right there is probably what it needed actually originally, it didn't look like you'd given much depth to the cliffs...so the shading changes that Ichigo added are pretty good to follow 

[Chris2balls]

Thank you very much, guys!

questseeker: I think those are good ideas! However, what you read as balconies/rails are in fact more beams. If any more of you have difficulties reading these, say so, I'll most likely get rid of them altogether.
Here was my reference, on the right.

milleja46: good points; I was planning on creating several versions of the grass tiles, with patches of light/dark grass or not, to break the grid. I was thinking that a darker dirt path could be a better transition for going out of town.

Thanks again Ichigo Jam, that looks great! I'll update these as soon as possible.

If there's anything else you'd like to remark on, suggest or whatever, please say so!

[Redshrike]

I think the reason the rails/beams are reading as rails is that they're so much darker than the other beams.  It makes them look like they're in the foreground.  If you tone them down a bit they should blend back into the wall.

[Chris2balls]

I've only had time to work on the house:

Changed the top version, bottom version is without the other beams.

EDIT: Added the dirt/cobble transition tiles.

EDIT2: Added more house tiles.

[Chris2balls]

A little bump with an update on the rocks and a few tiles:

[tehwexxl0rz]

New rocks look way too noisy, especially given the super-clean style of the houses and grass. Trees are a bit noisy as well....

I might make an edit later if I have some time. Houses look really nice!

[TheMonsterAtlas]

I'm a noob pixel artist so I might be wrong, but the rocks also look flat. They look like tiny holes in the ground rather than rocks.

[Chris2balls]

Okay tehwexxl0rz, I'll see what I can do about that.

Mhh... are we talking about the same rocks, XLR8ED? Your description makes me think of the cobble/dirt transition tiles, but I still think that the rockface could have a better impression of relief.

Thanks guys, I'll update this soon!

[Jim16]

Hi, I agree with whats already been said, adding to that the red and grey(blue) are conflicting, making the rocks look like they are bleeding.

I made an edit seeing as tex hasn't gotten around to doing one yet. Its just an idea. I need to go to the post office, so no good explanation of the edit, sorry.

[Chris2balls]

Thanks Jim, I like what you've done to the tree!
I've tried to fix the rock face:

I'll tweak it a bit more, add some grass at the bottom, and after that I'll do more work on the houses and the trees.

Updated.

[Chris2balls]

Okay, so I thought I'd create a mock-up with my current tiles:

Normally I'd have the resolution at half size (320x240)
I noticed the cobble/dirt tiles could do with more work, and the houses could do with a few changes too.

Tileset:

[Wes]

the mockup makes it clear that you should make some easy tiles to smooth things together—notably outer curves for the cobble street the cliffs, and some tiles for overlapping trees. (and around the water too, but I think you're probably getting to that anyway)

also seeing it like that the cobble is very repetitive to the point of being annoying on the eyes—though i think you've already noticed that yourself. the same with the sand tile—i think that texture/pattern is adorable but it could be spaced out a lot more (sort of like how you are doing the grass) so it doesnt seem so repetitive.

the dark grass on the right side seems weird the way you have it there—i hope that it's just there to show off the tile in the mockup

overall these are looking sweet. i absolutely love the clean style. keep at it, man.

[Chris2balls]

You're right about the cobbles: they're pretty heavy on the eye, much as I reduced their contrast. I could do something similar to the way I layed out the grass, what do you think? And yes, the forest is just makeshift with the tree tiles I currently have.
I think I should turn the cobble/dirt tileset inside out, which should give me the same result as for the grass edges. Talking about grass, you're right, the top right corner is for showcasing the night tiles.

Okay, these are all quite easy to adress.

Thank you, Wes!

(by the way, are you the same Wes that was on the Spriters Resource?)

[Chris2balls]

A humble update on the houses, the rest is layed down so I can work it next time:


EDIT: added some more cobble tiles.

[PypeBros]

interesting rocks. That gives them a very angular look, btw. I'd suggest you have a look at Ziggy (2Dhero.com) for alternate use of highlights on rocks, unless that was the intended effect.

[Chris2balls]

Thanks Pypebros! It was quite helpful to look at.
Does the cliff look any better? I've changed the cobbles, too:

[Sharm]

It's looking really great.  I love this tileset, it's got all the charm of a gbc game without looking restricted or lazy.  The new rocks are an improvement, they look less like they're a floor and the light source matches better.  I think it needs a little shading on the top to stop it from looking top heavy.  The cobbles are still bugging me, they look like roof shingles, and I think it's because of the sideways tilt and light direction.  I've done an edit on the cobbles and the new rocks, hope it's useful.

[PypeBros]

Does the cliff look any better?

Oh yeah! way better. glad to have been useful ^_^
All it needs now is a little yellow pixels in the grass, just nexto the cliff to give it more volume, and maybe one lonely stone that the grass could not cover and that stands like a warning for the foolish heroes-to-be

[Chris2balls]

Thanks Sharm! I think the cobbles look better now.
I've also made some other changes, including a few yellow highlights on the grass above the rocks:

[Sharm]

It's looking good.  I'm excited to see the cliff completed and whatever is next.  When you do the sides, make sure you have the rocks a lot more narrow on the very edges and be overlapped more.  More like the right side than the left.

[Facet]

This is rather charming little tileset Chris, but there are quite a few things which you might improve upon.   


First, I really like your palette although you're not really using it to it's potential here; almost all your tiles are 2-3 colours and straight ramps. Mix it up a bit

Lighting - Everything here is pretty flat, there's barely any shadow and those there are aren't bold enough to really sell the effect properly.

Texture - Quite a few busy & distracting repeating patterns to be used (presumably) over large areas.

A couple of specifics; I find the cliffs hard to parse, no sense of height and the sides don't read as shaded. Secondly those trees... I know there's a long, illustrious tradition of awful flat midget trees in RPG's but they're super super lazy. Those trees actually inspired an edit, mainly in order to banish them.

I've roughed out a few ideas for how you could better render/utilise colours, avoid repetitive patterns and also some stylistic stuff. The houses suggested pine woods to me so I indulged myself. I recall from a previous thread that you're working with limited tiles so not all of this might be feasible and I guess you were aiming for a less representational look overall but there's a few ideas you could take away from it.

[Juninho]

good!

but if you swapped the blue of the tree by a darker color would be better, especially in those joints

[Seiseki]

Secondly those trees... I know there's a long, illustrious tradition of awful flat midget trees in RPG's but they're super super lazy. Those trees actually inspired an edit, mainly in order to banish them.

I'm sorry, but even if your trees are looking incredibly good, they're not as charming as the original ones. (not to mention switching the type of tree)
You're a great artist but I think this is a clear case of you promoting your own preferences without regard for the original art style.
Because those trees look way too real and detailed. I actually think your style clashes to much with the simplistic, retro feel of the original tiles.
You have a more painterly, detailed non-uniform approach while the original is simple, uniform and cartoonish.
Just take a look at those character sprites, It looks like someone inserted old school rpg characters into an painting.

[HughSpectrum]

Those pixels are still sketchy.  I imagine if refined and adjusted to be tile-able there would be a lot less clash.

Also, I would totally put old school characters onto a painting if I could.

[Chris2balls]

Great stuff, Facet. Thank you very much, it really does help!
Due to my limited experience with tile-making, I tend to be quite rigid when I work. I also initially wanted to make something visually poorer and perhaps more symbolic in its content, but I don't mind trying this path. It'll require a few adjustments to get it into style, but it should be good. I won't hide that at one point I wanted to make the houses less square and have sparse details on the roof, but it isn't too late.
So I decided to whip out my tablet and scribble some rough tilesets with some tests alongside them:


I prefer these, as they are bigger and allow more flexibility. Still needs some work for better tiling though.

[Facet]

Looking great, keep polishing  

The light/dark transition on the cliff edges is still very abrupt and the grass there should cast some shadow to make the plane change absolutely clear.

I personally work better starting with a loose mockup and then trying to slim down the best ideas into a tileset. Starting from the tileset can sometimes have you ending up with a bit of a stilted, conservative end-product. Please do have a crack at some ludicrous, ambitious building designs; I'd very much like to see them.

Seisenki - I did get a bit carried away with my paint-over, but they're just rough suggestions for new directions you could take the piece; naturally very much inclined to my own tastes/whims. The stated intention of the tileset was to show off the palette, not to adhere to a particular style. Unfortunately the sprites do look quite out of place now maybe breaking some of those outlines would ease the clash.