AuthorTopic: playing with shading (again)  (Read 7791 times)

Offline jams0988

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 07:09:13 am
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Frankly, I believe otherwise. I liked the earlier version much better.

My two cents on the value/hue-shifting discussion: The darkest color doesn't have to be completely shifted, and furthermore, values don't have to be adjusted to correspond to that. In fact, I believe hue-shifting should never be overused unless you're doing some kind of extreme palette stylization thing, which I imagine is hard to pull off without looking unnatural/overdone. . .
. . .Mine next to yours for comparison.
Of course if you go and redraw/reshade the whole thing, yours will look better than the original, heheh. I don't think your drawing really proves that hue-shifting is wrong in this case, though, for that reason. I went ahead and recolored your edit to make the differences more clear for the OP. =)

Honestly, I think they look about the same, aesthetically. I think the hue-shifted one has a tiny bit more pop, but your original looks a little more realistic. I'm not sure which one I'd go with, personally, hahah. =D
Edit: And then for fun, you can even hue-shift the **** out of it, if you want to:

It's starting to get dangerous around this point, though. Like you said, Pistachio, I think it'd take a lot of skill to pull off such extreme hue-shifting in a game, and still have it look good, instead of overdone.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 07:32:48 am by jams0988 »

Offline API-Beast

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 03:04:09 pm
You usually shift in the opposite direction unless you want to look it very cold or metalish.

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It's starting to get dangerous around this point, though. Like you said, Pistachio, I think it'd take a lot of skill to pull off such extreme hue-shifting in a game, and still have it look good, instead of overdone.

It will always look overdone that’s why you will never find it in games. What is found more often in games and you (and/or coffee) might be/was referring to is back lighting. But back lighting isn't exactly hue shifting.

See this comparison:

First is the original, second row with 90° hue shifting, third row with 60° hue shifting. In the fourth row you see one example of back lighting.

Offline jams0988

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 03:39:31 pm
No, we meant hue-shifting. Which *is* used in games. Also, hue-shifting isn't a lighting style, like back lighting is. It's simply a technique - one that can be used to *imply* back-lighting. The sort of hue-shifting you normally see (like the example I posted) is actually basically the same as yours - it just implies a less harsh secondary light. As for your "hue shift towards red!" example, it doesn't usually make much sense. If we were outside (where I imagine this green foresty looking monster to be), it'd imply that the sky was red. It'd make sense in a lava cave, I guess...

Any of our stronger artists have a say in this? Ptoing, Helm, et al? You guys know pixel art much better than we do...

Offline API-Beast

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 04:45:40 pm
No you get me all wrong, you only use hue shifting for small differences. Instead of making bigger shifts you usually add a back light in a different color, often blue, cyan or magenta.

Take a look of the very well known tree of "Secret of Mana 3".

It uses a shift from green to blue, yes. But only in a small range. Less than the half of what you were recommending. It also uses magenta back light.

But now take a look at the other palettes used in the visible part (the first is the dirt, the second the grass and the third the rock), they all shift in the opposite direction. So the tree is more the exception than the rule.

The question is now why did they do that. I think once because they wanted a bit colder atmosphere and second to have better contrast between the background and the tree.

Offline jumbopaulo

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 08:39:27 pm
so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did. 
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.

Offline jams0988

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #15 on: October 25, 2011, 01:25:19 am
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so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did.
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.
Really? =P
Coffee posted with links to help you out. I posted with a refute and yet another link to help you out. (My link, btw, contains *EVERYTHING you need to know about color theory, ever. (*almost)). Pistachio took things even further, with a full paint over that looks like it took about five times longer to make than your original did. After that, I supplied two alternate palette's for said remake. Mr. Beast came in and colored the damned thing in like ten more times for you. And then he posted reasons why he shaded them the way he did, complete with professional examples.

Basically, we spent about ten times more effort discussing and readjusting your picture than you spent making it. And now you're asking us how to make your drawing better?!
You didn't even apply what we talked about in here yet! Go take a look at jumbo's repaint, and work from there. Let's see some art from you, hahah! =P

Anyway, if you want my HONEST honest opinion, as someone who's been drawing for ten years, I'd tell you not to worry too much about the pixel art for now if you're really focusing on learning; you'll learn the basics of how to shade and stuff much more quickly using a pencil than you will a mouse and MS-Paint. Of course, if you're having fun doing pixel art, continue to do that, too. Just know that it probably won't be as much practice for you as a pencil will. A pencil's much quicker than a mouse, after all. =)

http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

There's a really general, good, art tutorial that gets passed around a lot. I whole heartedly recommend it to you, kouhai. It'll get you started in your quest, at least. =D

And then after that one, read through this one: http://www.huevaluechroma.com/
It might be tough to work through, but if you can't even get through that, then abandon all hope, ye of short attention span! X3

Also, draw from life, or at least photo reference. If you don't know how your monster should be shaded, go find a monster and draw him. Oh, monsters aren't real? Well, then go something approximate (a pear? Green apple?) and then draw that instead. Stick arms and some eyes on there when you're done if that pleases you. Drawing from life will teach you a *lot,* so do it often. Good luck!

« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:54:14 am by jams0988 »

Offline Phlakes

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #16 on: October 25, 2011, 01:56:23 am
so, i read all you guys are saying, and it kind of is not helping me =p
but i'm not complaining, no way, i just think this discussion has gone far away from the primary objective of the topic, give opinions about what i did. 
i don't think i'm gonna play with the hue shifting thing. not yet.
just take a look at the first sprite i posted, and just give me opinions about it's shading, what i could do to improve.

This is what happens when you get professional pixel artists started.

Anyway, I simplified pistachio's edit and yours to make it clear-



The thing is round and very spherical, so it should be shaded like a sphere. Your shading basically uses two midtones with a bit of shadow around the outline.

Also, you need to clean up your lines. The tail looks like it was outlined with a pencil tool and never refined.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:58:51 am by Phlakes »

Offline jams0988

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #17 on: October 25, 2011, 02:16:42 am
...And yet another edit. I could spend six hours on something tomorrow, and I'd be lucky to get a few replies saying "it sucks, change everything." = =
You'd better draw something nice tonight with all these edits and advice, Jumbo. Because if I wake up tomorrow and you still don't have any new artwork in here, I'm going to find you and beat you to death with a wet loofa. XD

Show us what you've learned, and we'll go from there! :3

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This is what happens when you get professional pixel artists started.
lol, yup. Our art rage just proves that we love what we do. I'd be sad if nobody on here wanted to argue with me, hahah!
Nice edit, btw. o/
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 02:20:21 am by jams0988 »

Offline jumbopaulo

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Re: playing with shading (again)

Reply #18 on: October 25, 2011, 04:43:54 am
i know, i know you're trying to help me, maybe i'm not used to this kind of help =p
it can also be the language barrier, i think i don't understand everything you guys say.
i promise i'll show you guys something new based in the tips (i already started to change the original munster up there).
sorry if i sounded rude. here's some love <3
(*grumble* these artists... =p)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 04:46:49 am by jumbopaulo »