AuthorTopic: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game  (Read 9863 times)

Offline Yuri

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[C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

on: June 23, 2011, 08:32:21 am
I've done these using Pillbox Phil public domain edits of advance wars sprites as reference and using Manning Leonard Krull walk cycle tutorial.
I posted original Nintendo/IntelligentSystem copyrighted image as reference, if it's not covered by fair use please tell me and I'll remove them.

It's for a free Command and Conquer clone in oblique perspective 2d sidescrolling view I'm developping.

Soldier template :



Soldier with rifle :



Original reference :



_______

Bulldozer (on white background to see smoke):



Original reference :



_______

I'm not stuck on these design so if anybody has suggestions/comments, they're welcome and I'll try to apply them the best I can.

A few things I tried to improve and failed:
The soldier palette could do with better contrast. I tried saturated green which helped a bit but then the sprite looks more like toy soldier green army vs blue/red than the WWII feeling I'm trying to elicit. Here is the higher contrast experiment :


The dozer design is rather simple, it could have benefited from more details but I feel it would still work as is. Also the white star anti-aliasing was difficult to do by hand, the bottom part looks a bit off.

Offline 8bitbeard

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #1 on: June 23, 2011, 11:14:59 am
Quote
I'm not stuck on these design

Where is the point in almost 1 to 1 recreating those sprites?
While I really like, from a technical perspective, what you are doing there, I can totally understand that you are having issues with the creative process.
If all that you do is basically recreate those original sprites with a slight twist to their style, you'll have trouble coming up with stuff that does NOT exist as part of those original sprites.

My advise:
Take a step back, take the sprites as loose "insiprations" but find your own way of interpreting them. A small trick is to NOT have the sprites open in the background (or even worse, in a layer in the file you are working on).
Look at the refference closely, study it, really well. But then close it, open up your own file and work from your memory, the stuff that stuck to your brain. The blanks will be filled by your own imagination and ideas. With this, you can smoothly transition to "widen" the gap, have more blanks and fill them with more of your own ideas.
Eventually, you'll not need references anymore.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 11:16:47 am by 8bitbeard »

Offline Yuri

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #2 on: June 23, 2011, 01:15:25 pm
First of all, thanks for the heads up 8bitbeard.

> Where is the point in almost 1 to 1 recreating those sprites?
The point is pretty much getting graphics for a game that is not stolen and is reasonably good. The sprites from PillboxPhill would have been perfect for my project and cover everything I need. At first I planned on using them directly but was very disapointed when I realized a lot of his public domain work is actually recolour of copyrighted material.

Working from scratch is what I would like to do and will certainly give work from memory a go when I get time to do a more creative project. Although I really lack talent to achieve anything this way at the moment. While I personally love the 2bit style you used in your mockups and it's something I might be able to tackle, I fear it's not something the 12-14 years old market I'm targetting would find appealing (no offense).

From a business perspective, recreating sprites 1to1 seems a viable process when you look at the Batallion flash game series. They are very popular and almost identical to advance wars: same name, same gameplay, same units, same super deformed style, etc... People love them and seem to look beyond the obvious rip-off. Surprisingly they cite good graphics as the main reason for high ratings.  Also unlike most flash games you can tell they were made by a guy coming from a strong programming background (stable, fast, no glitch and no bugs).

Anyway, this is not justification for ditching your advice, just a process that enables me to get the job done right now.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 01:26:45 pm by Yuri »

Offline 8bitbeard

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #3 on: June 23, 2011, 02:01:41 pm
Perfectly understandable.
However ...
Quote
They are very popular and almost identical to advance wars: same name, same gameplay, same units, same super deformed style, etc...

Don't you fear that your game will be just one of a bazillion similar looking games in a highly competitive market?

Offline Yuri

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #4 on: June 23, 2011, 03:13:41 pm
> Don't you fear that your game will be just one of a bazillion similar looking games in a highly competitive market?
Not really, actually I'd be very happy if it is as good looking because graphics is my main weakness. I'm confident I can do better programming than most flash games out there and ok uninspired music/sfx. What I fear most is being too ambitious and putting more work than necessary to bring it to market, ending up abandoning the project because it takes too long to finish.

Since they are not directly copied from original copyrighted material and do not feature licensed characters, the sprites are at least legitimate for use in a game. I don't want to be OT though so I'll wait until I have the skill to create 100% original design to submit if necessary (this will take time).

So far I've focused on applying correct techniques : work only pixel by pixel, smooth animation, outlines, shading, proper palette, contrast, anti-aliasing, try to avoid excessive pillow shading and banding. I'd be thankful if someone can point errors regarding these points. Maybe I'm overlooking glaring stuff that needs improvement : anatomy is wrong, vehicule is too boxy, tracks doesn't look right...

It's a bit too much to recreate all from scratch and have it look even remotely as good at the moment but I don't mind recreating a specific part of the sprite like the roof, the trunk, the face, the feet...

Offline piffany

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #5 on: June 23, 2011, 08:05:30 pm
Just a note about the bulldozer. The front blade should be curved, not flat. Like this:



Reference: http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/how-to-draw-construction-vehicles-34.jpg
--Piffany
Disclaimer: I am still fairly new at pixel art, so please don't be offended by my negative critiques :)

Offline Yuri

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 05:46:07 pm
quick followup :


Pretty happy with it now  ;D

Offline piffany

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 08:06:36 pm
That looks good! Are you planning to make any other sprites?
--Piffany
Disclaimer: I am still fairly new at pixel art, so please don't be offended by my negative critiques :)

Offline Yuri

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 05:24:36 pm
Yeah a whole bunch, I've just started.

I'm also making backgrounds using this free tileset :
http://www.tekepon.net/fsm/

Here's a still from ingame, it's a work in progress :

Offline The 7th Sin

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 06:58:42 pm
Interesting work, I like your sprites so far, I just thought I'd give a few quick recommendations about the mock up.

A few over all thoughts:
The tile set you selected, really clashes with your sprites because of differences in both perspective and aesthetics.
You should probably look into either a new tile set, or design your own backgrounds.
Also, what is with the Geese and Dragon? ;)

Great work so far, I look forward to seeing what is yet to come.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 07:08:40 pm by The 7th Sin »

Offline Yuri

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 07:50:39 pm
Thanks for constructive feedback on the background, unlike the sprites it's still major work in progress. The pic is actually from in game (not mock-up), there's some animation going on (goose, butterfly, flags, bat). The flags were bugging me but I didn't quite knew why, definitely will remove that black outline :y:

I also had feeling Gargoyle is out of place, maybe I'll remove it. The concept is that the player side is all cutey and flowery and when you scroll right you discover the enemy side is macabre/sinister hence the geese on the left side.

The major problem as you've picked up is that the game is in oblique perspective while the tileset is in top down perspective. There's no extensive free tile-set in oblique perspective so I'll probably stick to this one because it enables me to work faster.

So far I've found a few ways to coerce the perspective and try to match aesthetic but it's not perfect.
- add an oblique shadow to the objects
- skew the sprite and fill in missing parts
- replace dithering with shading (not done yet)

example before :


after :
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 08:32:06 pm by Yuri »

Offline piffany

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Re: [C+C] WWII sprites for flash game

Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 03:15:42 pm
The sudden change in perspective reminds me of Inception.

Other than that, I really like how the game looks--vibrant yet not too saturated :)
--Piffany
Disclaimer: I am still fairly new at pixel art, so please don't be offended by my negative critiques :)