AuthorTopic: RPG girl  (Read 7863 times)

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

RPG girl

on: May 08, 2006, 09:07:25 pm
this is a bit old, but i dont think ive ever asked for a real critique on this, and since the project is being dusted off, i think i should (ive got to do a bunch more in all the same style, so i should make sure people like the style before i go ahead and make 10)

intended to be a sprite for a menu background (and cropped version for dialogue boxes), its probably the largest work of mine



i think this was very much my first real attempt at extensive color mixing,a nd i probably used a few too many colors in the process while still managing to skimp on some areas. i may well edit this at some point but for now im considering it finished (i havent opened the file in months :P)

19 colors
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 09:09:25 pm by Adarias »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: RPG girl

Reply #1 on: May 08, 2006, 09:23:38 pm
this is the legs-too-long-anime style, yes? Well if you do it on purpose I can just say it's there. Check your abs area, I think you're impovising it a bit too much.

I wouldn't use blues on the hair, nor skin color on bra (skin color on cloth, unless masterfully handled just looks like holes in the fabric)

hand in hair really doesn't work, she has no palm, only fingers. Rework that bit?

A bit crosseyed, I'd say give her a full nose, smaller lips, upper lip. Edit pending.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: RPG girl

Reply #2 on: May 08, 2006, 09:50:51 pm
oo goody, a usefull critique, thats what i like to see :P

when i update this ill take all of that into account

as i said, this was done a while back (actually in september of '05) and ive got 8 months worth of experience since then that i plan to put to good use once i hear what everyone wants fixed

as a post script, are you sure i can use blue on the hair and cream on the bikini top? i kinda like it in the hair, and without the cream the bathin suit looks like it isnt part of the torso color region (which it is).  if they must go, could you suggest an alternative? (id use lavender in both places but faktalbad is right in saying i use too much of it)
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: RPG girl

Reply #3 on: May 08, 2006, 09:55:31 pm
I think the upperleg to shin ratio needs to shift a bit. the upperleg should be slightly longer than the shin afaik.
Alos HER left breast should be a bit higher and slightly stretched up because of the raised arm.

Good work tho. listen to Helm :D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 09:59:23 pm by ptoing »
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: RPG girl

Reply #4 on: May 08, 2006, 10:00:08 pm
thanks

if it helps, here is the original sketch (a quickie) i did that this work is made from. it might give better insight in to what i hoped to achieve back in the fall
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: RPG girl

Reply #5 on: May 08, 2006, 10:06:57 pm


I can tell you one thing: your current palette is hell. The jacket works so well it is just almost worth it, but in the end a lot of restructuring is in order if you want to do all you can do with it. Looking at your (old, but still) stuff closer, I have these crits that I believe are valid and you should give them thought:

*pixel art is a precise art form. Every pixel needs to be placed with intention. Right now, you're too messy. You look at your stuff too much on 1x zoom (am I right?) and it works there but what bars good pixel art from being great pixel art sometimes is the extra sheen of smooth people (like ptoing, not me so much) put that you don't see in 1x (but which you see in 2x) that almost subconsciously make you feel 'this is smooth, this is deliberate'. More precise pixel placement. AA everything you need to aa. If you have lines that have 3-4 levels of lightness difference on surfaces, and you've not yet AAed them with buffers, you should ask yourself why you're not doing this. Pixel art can be a naturalistic medium where everything is equally detailed and BLAM in your face intense, or it can be a medium where attention is diverted to places with more information against more blank stuff. In either case, where you DO have pixel information packed tightly, your skills need to be uber-extra tight. Every pixel in it's right place. This is the quest, and it will take you as many years as you put into it.

*different planes of lightness. Under the neck it's darker than on the brow, and therefore you START with a darker base regardless of what tints on information you later on pack in there. This is important in ever level. Items have volumes and are faceted. Study the face as a collection of geometric shapes, and give different planes initial values that aren't all flat. If you're coming from a comic art or manga art of anime art background: forget. Look at objects as collections of primitives like painters do, and don't rely on hisaturation unless you're making a point with it. If you have too much white (or too much black. Guilty Helm? Guilty) and it's not a stylistic thing, you need to think about why you're doing it. Like when someone takes a hicontrast photo of something, or posterizes, things are easier to draw like that, but you strip away a lot of the challenge. Tone your lightness values down, and do it the challenging way: show brightness through juxtaposition and contrast where you need it. White is the 'I put a specular highlight here, tee hee' color, not a big surface color. (some of the time. I think you should try)

*forget selout. Break outlines in relation to how 'thick' the contour you're trying to express is, forget gameart, even WHEN you're doing gameart. Everything benefits from this. Selout was a flawed conception to begin with and only works for stuff that is highly specialized for it, and your stuff just gets added dirt because of it. Lightness should apply to outlines, even when they're differentiating signifiers (meaning: when the are ment to say 'HERE the arm ends, and the jacket begins') and the trick is to make them dark ENOUGH, not a collection of dots impressing a broken dirty outline.

the sounds all 'I ARES KNOWE THE TRUETH' but I don't mean it as such, I am just in a hurry. This is all IMO and you can take it or leave it. Just trying to help.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 10:11:00 pm by Helm »

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: RPG girl

Reply #6 on: May 08, 2006, 11:19:20 pm
helm i like your style, an i appreciate the critique (its quite nice and detailed), but i do wish to say (and i mean this in the nicest of ways), i dont want to draw like you (which explains why our works look nothing like each other :P).  this piece is done in a particular style, and as much as i like yours, yours isnt it.  if you have any suggestions as to how i can improve on the existing work to be more presentable i would love to have them, but what you have suggested feels like redoing the same picture in a different way than adjusting an old picture to be better.  perhaps i should not have asked for too much advise, since i have a pretty narrow vision of where i want to take this particular piece.

also, does it make more sense to know that this is intended to be viewed only at 1x?  i do a lot of work, this included, that isnt supposed to be zoomed in upon, which i know will draw a lot of criticism, but the fact is that if something isnt intended to be zoomed in, i dont care what it looks like zoomed in.  this may be the wrong place for works like this which arent really pixelart in that sense.

EDIT: i gotta admit, i felt like an ass saying that
« Last Edit: May 08, 2006, 11:27:56 pm by Adarias »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: RPG girl

Reply #7 on: May 08, 2006, 11:36:27 pm
Just my opinion, it's bound to be relative to what I think is interesting to see. You don't have to explain yourself or explain why you won't take my critique. But it is indeed not exactly 100% nice to ask for critique and then say you didn't want it in the first place.

About style and editing a style: you're correct, I did change the style because I found it impossible to make the image interesting to my eyes while retaining the sparse anime style you were going for on the face. Just take it like a different approach. There's still technique there to look at regardless of the shape of the nose or mouth.

About the 1x zoom, if you say so. I personally like art that can be zoomed in and pixel art is the prime medium for that kind of detail. Ask yourself if you're playing up the medium's strengths if your work is nozoom. I'd go with free CG instead.

Offline Turbo

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • less than meets the eye
    • View Profile
    • Pixeljoint TurboAccount

Re: RPG girl

Reply #8 on: May 08, 2006, 11:48:00 pm
It has a few "posture" problems: if the left leg is almost totally behind the right one, the "pants zipper line" (sorry about the vocabulary, my english is failing me now :P) should be mid-way between what you have now and the left contour line, because that leg makes the hips twist to the left. The right breast seems a bit too twisted to the right, it should be pushed more to the center, closer to the other one (or the inverse, push the right breast more to the left, to make the distance to the torso center line equal between both breasts).

The perspective lines that run through the feet, knees, hips, belly, breasts and shoulders should be something closer to parallel (or moving to a vanishing point at the left), but i think they're a bit all over the place (the head is what looks most out of perspective, and the other parts marginally as well, but enough to be a bit of a bother).

Otherwise, it's very pretty. The things that bother me more are the figure construction aspects that i mentioned, i suggest you keep attention at these while you're sketching the initial drafts.

Offline ndchristie

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 2426
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile

Re: RPG girl

Reply #9 on: May 09, 2006, 12:22:16 am
thansk, ill try to take these about the forms etc things into account if i edit

and helm, i dont mean that i dont want critique, if i didnt want critique i wouldnt have posted it.  but, though i dont want to sound like an ass, what you offered was not a critique, it was an explanation of a somewhat similar but really entirely different piece of art, and though perfectly nice and valid, that isnt what im looking for.  i like your edit (even though shes supposed to be northern european and you made her into a hispanic :P), but the fact remains that youve more or less suggested scrapping everything but the  and general lines and costume colors, which isnt a critique at all (im not sure what to call it).

as far as asking myself if 1x zoom pieces really take full advantage of the medium, i dont even have to think to say that no, they dont take full advantage of the medium's pixel-perfect detail, they dont even try to and arent going to, thats not what they are ment to be, so like i said perhaps posting this on a site that focusses highly  on that particular aspect of pixel art was a mistake.

thanks again everyone for the advise on the proportions, forms, etc, ill keep them in mind later.  However, since this is clearly not the place for this, i wont be posting it here.  a moderator may lock or destroy this topic that their disgression.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.