Feature 08 - Gregory faces the dragon

[pistachio]

Much better now.

At least, an improvement from what you had last time. Only thing I would suggest is toning down the highlights on his hind legs, maybe his right arm, as such bright values might distract the viewer. There's more, I can tell, but for now it's all I've got.

[EyeCraft]

Bit of an edit:



You're keeping your ramps' hues a bit isolated from eachother. For example, the dragon's skin is very green, the roofs are very red, etc. Consider the hues of the lightsource(s) and the ambient light in the scene. These will affect the hues of the highlights and shadows, respectively.

Also think about the overall palette of the image. It's better that there are only a couple of major hues running across the entire piece, in the example of my edit purple is the dominant colour with reds/oranges being a secondary colour, and thats it. Being selective like this harmonises the piece much more.

Don't mix your shadows into your highlights. It destroys the sense of volume. Compare the difference in the feeling of volume in the dragon's limbs that I editted.

Be mindful of where you want the focal point(s) to be and how the eye will travel between them. You want travel of the eye to be unhindered. Noisy stuff like the high-contrast area of smoke and fire impedes the movement of the eye and distracts it as it moves between the human and the dragon. I fiddled with the contrast a little jut by lightening up the smoke, but it really needs MUCH more than that.

This carries over into the contrast in all the background elements of the piece. Keep them to a minimum, since they are not focal points. The statue is a good example; tone it right down to match the rest of the background scenery.

Hope this helps. I love big, dramatic scenes like this, so look forward to seeing more.

[Cyangmou]

You're keeping your ramps' hues a bit isolated from eachother. For example, the dragon's skin is very green, the roofs are very red, etc. Consider the hues of the lightsource(s) and the ambient light in the scene. These will affect the hues of the highlights and shadows, respectively.

Also think about the overall palette of the image. It's better that there are only a couple of major hues running across the entire piece, in the example of my edit purple is the dominant colour with reds/oranges being a secondary colour, and thats it. Being selective like this harmonises the piece much more.

Don't mix your shadows into your highlights. It destroys the sense of volume. Compare the difference in the feeling of volume in the dragon's limbs that I editted.

Be mindful of where you want the focal point(s) to be and how the eye will travel between them. You want travel of the eye to be unhindered. Noisy stuff like the high-contrast area of smoke and fire impedes the movement of the eye and distracts it as it moves between the human and the dragon. I fiddled with the contrast a little jut by lightening up the smoke, but it really needs MUCH more than that.

This carries over into the contrast in all the background elements of the piece. Keep them to a minimum, since they are not focal points. The statue is a good example; tone it right down to match the rest of the background scenery.

Hope this helps. I love big, dramatic scenes like this, so look forward to seeing more.

Ahh yeah, completely understood what you said and some points are really helpful as well.



made the palette (29 colors so far) and cleaned up the whole concept and mirrored it, not quite sure which side is the chocolate side.
Did some changes (anatomy, volume, still not finished). I tried to make the fire look like the wizard splits it up (maybe add here and there a little bit smoke later, not as much as before)
I personally think tydiing up was quite helpful for the focus, now I am worrying about the warm/cold combo, because there isn't really lots of space to get away from the heat of the flame (midground, background and some shadows are done with the cool colors)

All in all a really small step forward, but gathering some opinions here is quite useful
(and ignore the mistakes at the shoulders of gregory, will fix it)

[Cyangmou]

Played further around with the finished palette and came up with this,
I also worked on the foreground the last days (maybe some technique mistakes there (especially banding), but I'll check it out in the end.

[Cyangmou]

It was a little bit quiet here for a while, but I found some time to work on it.



I made the dragon and the background.
Midground bottom and the fire aren't outworked so far, but it's quite near to finish (if I haven't overlooked some mistakes you'll maybe see)

[Cyangmou]

I'd call it finished. I made the fire and improved some little things. Because I didn't recieve any response previously, I guess nobody had anything to complain about?

[Mathias]

Don't ever challenge me to come up with "complaints" . . .

(this post soon to be edited with some . . . points)



*EDIT. nm

[alex pang]

1 # Dragoons wings blend to easily with the colum to the left.
2 # Texture on the wings are to "floppy" if you get what i mean.
3 # Clouds are just boring to look at.
4 # The tiles under the dragon should have more variation in hue.
5 # The robe needs more texture.
6 # The girl to the right needs some highlights.
7 # I don't see how the dragons left arm is naturally connected to his body.

[st0ven]

TBH i think this was your best rendition right here. you had the atmosphere and proper contrast levels that made for the most interesting read to my eye.

Your latest version sort of flattens the contrast out, which takes your eye away from the main point of interest, which should be the flame. As you come to the foreground, rich blacks hitting vibrant lighting from the flame, which will dissipate with distance, seems to be the proper treatment IMO.

i made just a quick edit from your most recent rendition to point out how much of a difference it can make as an impact to the eye.



Forgive my rather roughness in this edit its done only to show some points. i dont wish to do any detail work for you (mainly because i dont have the time, but it wouldnt help you anyway i dont think).

Basically whats going on here at the lowest level is a decrease in brightness with an increase in contrast. This is a pretty easy photoshop adjustment to make. From there im just using a few layers to rough in some brighter highlights that might be hit by the flame's lighting. Noe as well that the character being hit by the flame will have very similar highlights wherever the light will hit. high contrast because he is very close and silhouetting the source of the foreground lighting. If i wanted to go through and make this thorough, your railing/floor areas that are catching that light would have a similar value that the pillar has. This general contrast area will also help define the silhouette of your wizard character (forgive me for not editing this in). The ornate mermaid structure should probably also get just a slight more lighting on it to put it on the same field of depth as the claw that is holding it.

Note that with the dragon i threw in an additional lighting treatment in certain areas to help place his entire figure more in the foreground. We want that backlighting thats hittimg him to be slightly lighter in value than the sky behind him to bring those edges forward. You dont HAVE to do this but i think given the twilight setting it felt appropriate (and is a nice cooling contrast to the very warm fire).

I'd call it finished. I made the fire and improved some little things. Because I didn't recieve any response previously, I guess nobody had anything to complain about?

Heh - well if you want to go there, i think theres lots that cna be fixed and adjusted in terms of the layout, some of the perspective happening in the piece, the wizard's form/anatomy, the treatment and detailing of the sky, but it doesnt seem to me that you are hoping to go through a gutting of this piece at this point. the time to do all that was way closer to the beginning of the thread. sorry for not jumping in on that sooner.

[Cyangmou]

@st0ven:
Yeah it'd have been better if you jumped on earlier, but it's great that you jump on now.
The time I spend with this piece is unimportant, it's a practice thing and I really appreciate good critiques like yours. It's also good for me to try out and see different ways and how to improve some parts. I learned a lot during I did it and I am also open for suggestions, critiques and other helpful statements. Your quick edit is filled up with a lot of good points and I really think about it. If you'd go with me through all (or some) points you see, it would help me a lot. If I am not thinking about the things you said of this piece, I won't know the things next time and if I don't know them I won't be able to avoid them. The great thing about pixels is for me that I am able to overdraw huge parts =)