[WIP] Sakura sprite

[Tenshi]

(Reference: http://www.tanime.net/fc-universe/databank/characters/enjeru_yasashii/yasashii_enjeru-1.jpg There are minor differences as I've some alterations to make to this reference )

This is the main character for my game / thesis project. Any blaring problems? I haven't pixeled in a very long time so I'm just now getting back into it so ... probably laden with errors.

[Helm]

Hi, Tenshi. Your sprite shows evidence of over-adherance to design and the lineart that denotes this design. The end result is nice looking, but I think several factors contribute to it feeling too noisy and overworked. First of all, the way you organise your palette, with every little design thing having its own 2-3 color ramp, makes the end result seem plastic and disjointed, as if it's not lit under the same light uniformly. Less colors sometimes are easier to look at. Furthermore, the way you keep to your vision of the sprite ("she has a tattoo here and a pendant there and her shoes are exactly like that") make for a busy sprite. The solution to this sadly is to simplify and remove a lot of detail that doesn't read at this sprite size.

The way you highlight everything makes the sprite overbright and as if its hit by flash photography lighting at that. The selout is outmodded technology which I sincerily suggest to you that you reconsider. What is it achieving that you cannot achieve with other means?

In my edit below, the sprite goes from 32 colors to 16 with, I hope, not too much information or detail loss. The more managable palette, with much of the highlight work removed, reveals a very sturdy and well-done sprite construction, which I think you're hurting by the way you're rendering. You also fall victim to banding here and there. Is the term banding new to you? If so, I can explain in a more detailed fashion, but generally it's where bands of pixels line up horisontially or vertically and spoil the illusion of fine resolution by showing the pixel grid.



I is the original, II is the removal of most highlight work while keeping the colors as they were. III is a significant rework of both pixel clusters and their color indexes, and my suggestion for an alternate way to work these sprites. Also below, the final edit for consideration without the nuisance of the animation.



Hope I helped.

[Tenshi]

Helm: Three colors would indeed be easier to work with considering I have animations to do do in 4 directions, just that next thing I knew I ended up with 4; I'll study this carefully. You make a good point about the removal of sel-out... your edit does look better without it and it seems more natural.

The removal of most of her details is a very hard consideration, I'm not very good about removing detail I find important but I do see how it does look so much cleaner without it. Hmm...

Thank you though, your edits have given me much to think about.

Edit: I see you went with the nose. Thanks, I actually thought about putting that in there, and then removed it again, but I definitely think I like it there rather than not.

[Helm]

I'm glad if I helped.

The problem with systemized methods for coloring is not that it's more easy/difficult to animate later, it's that the sprite lacks cohesion and looks like a toy. Green armband. Brown shoes. Blue shirt. All these different little straight ramps of primary colors make the whole look terribly artificial. If you can unify the palette and give it a flow, I wouldn't care even if it were 128 colors, cram as many as you want in there. As long as they have a purpose and the promote the look and feel of the character as an alive person.

You can always save the detail stuff for her up-close view in-game, can't you? Think of the sprites in old final fantasy games or something. It's not unheard of. In that case sure, bring back the tattoo even on the small sprite but just have it be a few pixels worth of a symbol 'there is a tattoo here', it doesn't have to be the literal shape of the up-close one.

As to the nose, I thought it worked. Personally I'd give her a mouth too for full-on Sierra On-lineification, but I realize that's crossing streams.

[Tenshi]

Yes you did. Here I thought my blaring problems would be anatomy but I should have been paying more attention to the colors.

I used GIMP to pixel with, and learned how to use the in-line color selection tool to speed things up (Hold CTRL while using the pencil tool). I'll tinker with it to see if there's a way to create colors that are blended from colors already in the sprite, since that's something I'm a bit new to.

Yes, I can save the detail for a closer-up version, it's just difficult to not use them because I know that they're there... but it's a learning process. As you can see from the years' old sprite on my avatar, it's something I just need to learn -- if anything, not worrying about where every spec of color for her flower tattoos will make it a little easier down the road since I have some deadlines to reach.

I like the mouth, it was in one version but I removed it because it didn't look very good with the selout, but without the selout it looks so much better so the mouth will definitely make it into the final version.

I'm using PNG sources directly in the game and moved to a library called SFML, so I can import images directly into the game, as so, to show the character's detail:


Though that's an older layout (I'm not working menus until I get a playable demo out for my Thesis and I ripped out all of that code and I've removed attribute caps and reduced/altered some of the attributes themselves) but *I guess* I can force myself to leave the detail there.


Still, you have been most helpful.

[Helm]

as far as anatomy goes the sprite looks pretty solid. The higher res reference is very good as well, but since you asked here's a few issues



a. seek reference on how the forearm muscles tuck away under the shouder and chest muscles. My guide is extremely simplistic, but it still sells it better than what you've got right now.

b. warrior woman would have to have very developed back muscles to handle swords and such. These would show around the neck more. Also don't deglect how necks work. Again, my guide is very simplistic, but it instantly makes her feel more like a human being.

c. just the line of the spine should help distribute the abdominal symbols. I'd personally go without such things because women, even when they are extremely fit, rarely get the 'washboard' look to their abs. That is, without steroids and the like. If you have to have them, make them flow better than what you've got right now. But still, please refer to this link for more realistic fit woman archetypes as far as abs go.

Very impressed with the other arm though, good construction. And I like the shape and feel of the legs. You're shading a bit oddly though, kinda like you do on your sprites. More science and simplification of scientific principles should be used to shade flesh, even in semi-anime semi-cartoony styles such as these.

[Tenshi]

Yes, I'll be redoing that image to correct those mistakes, and also to update her with some newer changes (also when I did that I was researching martial arts styles that would use effectively use a long sword, but I've settled on a long-handled sword more the Seung Mi-Na route instead which is why the sword is awkwardly drawn in the art -- because it was a polearm, then a sword, but now it's back to polearm now [though the style I researched, Grain Leaf/ "Maio Dao", works well with both polearms and long swords]).

I will also be adjusting her muscle definition to match her mixed racial background given the improved understanding; that much definition would be reserved more likely for a woman of African heritage given bodyfat, etc. and the link you provided backs that up -- thanks, I'll be bookmarking that.

I think I may have been a bit unclear in my post, sorry to make you go through the extra effort, it was the sprite's anatomy I was concerned about, but I do appreciate it, thank you.

Edit: Looks like GIMP does have a tool for creating a color from another color. I will tinker with that and see if I can come up with some acceptable colors on my own and apply what you've shown me to it. I'd given some thought to making her as dark as the set of colors you used based on the fact that a sunny environment would indeed darken her skin, but I decided to go with the lighter skin to highlight a different racial trait. She should freckle, and I have to find a way to work that in.

[Stickman]

Helm's edit makes far more sense especially if your going to be animating. On the sprite, you'll want to keep those limbs as clear and readable as possible, otherwise it will be a boiling mess when it starts moving.

[Tenshi]

This is where I am at currently. I searched for some documents on color unification (and actually ended up with a thread here). I am trying to make an effort to mix my colors together a bit more and still need to adjust the colors/shading on the outfit (blue parts) and gloves and shoes and to stay away from selout.. also read an article that ties into this about trying to increase the apparent resolution and I think trying to keep that in mind is helping me make some sense of all of this.

[Helm]

I think this is much more readable and pleasing to the eye. There's still broken outlines in various places but I can live with that, personally. Perhaps you should move on to new sprites?

[Tenshi]

I think this is much more readable and pleasing to the eye. There's still broken outlines in various places but I can live with that, personally. Perhaps you should move on to new sprites?

I'd like to finish this one and try to get it right. I may not get to spend a lot of time on it today though because I need to get my thesis proposal written up but I spent a lot of hours looking over your edits over the last few days to try and understand what I should be aiming toward which is why it's been so long since I've posted something. Once I get all of the colors changed over and such I'll move on, though. I'm also *trying* to arrive at something decent for the closer leg of the left-facing sprite.

Thanks for all of your help, though. It's been invaluable.

[Conzeit]

Hey Tenshi =) I generally agree with what Helm already said...but the sprite format u chose seemed fun and I kinda felt like editing for old time's sake  =)



Started from Helm's and tried to bring some more depth in it by having bigger blocks of shadow n light, I can already spot some problems with my edit on the pxtion bg but I guess posting it still is more useful than not :p

EDIT: and ANOTHER version:

I really havent changed one bit....edit button was always my love/vice

[Dessa]

The way you highlight everything makes the sprite overbright and as if its hit by flash photography lighting at that. The selout is outmodded technology which I sincerily suggest to you that you reconsider. What is it achieving that you cannot achieve with other means?

Well, since you offered to explain it, what is the selout (I looked it up, but the answers were unclear), why is it outmoded, and what techniques better achieve a similar effect?

[Helm]

I wanted to say I find Conceit's edits to be very volumetrically robust. I like them a lot and learn from them also! Thanks. 

As to selout:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2511.0 good intro topic

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5253.0 (sadly dead pkmays links but you get the idea)

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=7900.0 excellent discussion again

[Dessa]

Aww, I'm kinda disappointed that my "what is selout?" question didn't kick up a shitstorm like in those links there.  Sadface.

So literally it's "selective outlining", colloquially it's dark broken outlines (esp. against light backgrounds), practically it's just anti-aliasing done badly, or done to specific contexts, and ultimately, it should never, ever, be discussed because nobody knows for certain what it is, or whether it exists.  Did I get the gist?

Would you hate me if I said it looks okay sometimes?  I like Capcom's sprites...

[Helm]

I don't particularly care to change your views, just as long as they're educated.

[Dessa]

I don't particularly care to change your views, just as long as they're educated.

Oh, I assure you they're not, but I'm working on it.

[Tenshi]

And I am back. I meant to have something last week but it took me into the middle of the week to get my proposal to where I wanted it to be.

This is what I have as of today.

I tried to work on fixing the outlines and increasing the resolution of the sprite as well as bringing the blue and gloves into line with the rest of it.

Hi Camus! It has certainly been a long-time-no-see. I definitely like the shape you achieved with the shoes and the muscle tone, I need to have a good look at that!

[Dessa]

And I am back. I meant to have something last week but it took me into the middle of the week to get my proposal to where I wanted it to be.

This is what I have as of today.

I tried to work on fixing the outlines and increasing the resolution of the sprite as well as bringing the blue and gloves into line with the rest of it.

Hi Camus! It has certainly been a long-time-no-see. I definitely like the shape you achieved with the shoes and the muscle tone, I need to have a good look at that!

Looking way better, IMO.  Was this built over the stripped-down edit I sent you in IM? 

The bit between her legs in the "facing us" shot is a little ambigious.  Like It's not clear what that green dot is supposed to be.

[HughSpectrum]

The bit between her legs in the "facing us" shot is a little ambigious.  Like It's not clear what that green dot is supposed to be.

I'm pretty sure that's the back flap of her skirt, cast under shadow.

Unless you're talking about something else.

[Dessa]

The bit between her legs in the "facing us" shot is a little ambigious.  Like It's not clear what that green dot is supposed to be.

I'm pretty sure that's the back flap of her skirt, cast under shadow.

Unless you're talking about something else.

Oh, I know what it is.  I just dont think it reads well.  It looks like a big pixel.  Is this an example of banding?

[Tenshi]

Banding is more the use of pixels next to one another in a sort of gradient fashion, I believe. That right there isn't an example of banding, but there are a few bits of banding left in the image. I couldn't remove all of them without losing shape.

[Cure]

It seems strange that something as loose as a loincloth would be giving her a wedgie.

[Tenshi]

It seems strange that something as loose as a loincloth would be giving her a wedgie.

Hmm... I can try and adjust that, it's supposed to look as though there're two pieces of fabric there (a longer ribbon) and I tried to show division without using banding. It'll make more sense when the sprite is animated, but with the still, I guess I can see how it does look like a wedgie.

[Mike]

It seems strange that something as loose as a loincloth would be giving her a wedgie.

It's not a wedgie she just has a nice round butt and the fabric that is laying on top of it is very thin and conforming to it's shape.  That's how I imagine it...

A few things about the sprite. 

1.Try really hard to make sure there aren't any blatant straight pixels as that tends to flatten the depth you are going for.  Specifically I'm talking about her shoe straps that are on the calves.  Try and wrap the form around the calves.  Some things can be straight but not straight across a rounded form.  I base this piece advice off of what you would do if you were drawing this on paper.

2. The color for the skin is too pinkish.  I think it is anyway.  I'm pretty sure my monitor is properly calibrated.  Anyway I think you should move a little bit away from the red hue.

3.  You are nuts for having 2 different horizontal directions.  I wish you the best of luck   Although I suppose that doesn't have to be true for the walk or anything else.

4. I really like her pose and her facial "Style"  I like that she has a nose and a mouth and she also has a nose in the profile shots.  Good stuff!

Oh one last thing.  Please please please do something about your pallet.  It's painful to look at(just talking about the pallet grid)

Love it so far!  Keep it up!

[Tenshi]

Thank you for the response, Mike. I apologize for the delay in responding.

I will try to address #1. I noted they were straight when coloring it but given the size of the sprite, I was a bit concerned about them rolling too high or low.

I have two monitors with different calibration settings, and I can see what you mean. On one she does appear a bit redder. I will take a look at that and see if I can find a happy medium. A bit of red is ideal since her hair is a rather large object and it is red, but not overwhelmingly so. Thanks for noting that (I didn't check it on the other monitor when I was coloring it).

Hee hee. Yeah, there is that, but if anything, it reduces CPU cycles on flipping sprites... and some sprites only have an item or so on one side so flipping would look weird. But I start by flipping it, so when there're no details to change that'll make it easier. And thanks, I'm likely going to need the luck!

Thank you for the complements.

The grid?