AuthorTopic: GR#044 - Human Sprite in Perspective - Perspective, Anatomy  (Read 10654 times)

Offline JinnDEvil

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Hi there, this is my second topic here, and I really hope to get some good advises as usual!  ;)

I'm starting a new PA, and I want to do the things right this time, so I'm starting from the scratch!
And I'm wondering if this is a good start...



I want a girl laying in the roof of a castle or something like that.

What should I change before I go for the next step?
Would be the sky visible at this perspective?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 07:08:59 am by JinnDEvil »

Offline StaticSails

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 07:44:52 am
I don't think the sky would be visible, I think some far off ground would be.

Careful of those jagged lines, they will be causing you a lot of trouble soon enough.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 12:47:19 pm
I confirm, if this rempart is mostly horizontal, the horizon will be where the lines cross, way up above the picture.
To view a girl laying on a merlon like this, from above, the viewer has to be higher so you can't draw it as if it was viewed a human height.
Whatever you draw in the top left corner, it has to be seen from a point of view 3 meter above the girl.

I'd almost go three-point perspective on this, using a huge canvas during work since the vanishing points are very far off the picture.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 02:48:52 pm
So, the only way I could get a sky is extending the limit of the canvas?

Like this, at least?



Wel, I thing I wont then. I'll stay with a high view of the ground.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 03:15:29 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 03:52:45 pm
Or you increase the spread for the top lines, so that they cross quicker, before the top of your intended canvas. Note that visually, it will means the view is more horizontal, so you will probably need to adjust the pose for the girl (more horizontal and closer, less 'seen from above').

My PA suck but I remember very fondly my art course about perspective :) When the vanishing points were outside the picture, the practice was to physically tape the picture on the table, and draw the extra lines on the table as guides.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 04:36:46 pm
It's not big deal about the sky. But I still don't know how I'll handle the ground, any idea?

Anyway, this is what I got now:

Offline trough

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 04:42:48 pm
If this tower was very high in the air, maybe on a mountain, you could have an awesome far-away background with a river, a forest, mountains, another castle in the distance, etc.

Offline Pawige

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 05:13:21 pm
I think the small sliver of a crenelation is kind of throwing the composition and the rhythm of the piece. I'd either crop it out entirely, or expand the canvas size to include more of it.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 05:20:23 pm
Really, Pawige?

Do you think this is better?




And thanks Trough, I think I'll go for it.


Update:

« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 09:51:16 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline Cure

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 10:19:33 pm
hair seems rather flat since it hugs the wall so carefully at the edge. I'd also expect it to fall more straight-down, the exaggerated curves don't make sense to me. I'd use another color for the highlight on the bikini, unless it's meant to be sheer. face looks good.

Offline Jad

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 10:26:58 pm
Yeah, straighten out the hair in the middle and let it curl at the end, since the hair in the middle has to carry the most weight
' _ '

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 10:30:20 pm
Something like this? I dont know... Now it look like blood or something, imo...



I kinda prefer the old one.

Why not just change the way it folows the edge?

« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 10:33:32 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline Mush

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 11:12:06 pm
There's an infinite number of ways to arrange the composition, but it seems that you've only explored one of them.  The focal point is clear and vibrant, but everything else seems dull; the diagonal lines and figure draw the eye to the top right of the picture, but there is nothing there to hold interest.


Other possible compositions:

-View perpendicular to wall so that you can see the landscape behind it:
 http://lh3.ggpht.com/_F-ly0u0mezQ/SOCgAEe6dhI/AAAAAAAAE_k/jLD8KxfJnxU/top+of+castle+(Small).JPG
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/98759657.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=A7B69CF049AC9005D3CEBAE298AE0A8A8361E15733A2D3515F07F5DC6AE31502

-View looking up at wall:
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_504/1274136240iI8dnQ.jpg

-Reducing figure size to improve atmosphere:
http://image40.webshots.com/41/2/56/13/2313256130082663307VsCeSp_fs.jpg

-From the side:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/3444242524_afdafdf3df_z.jpg

-Other ideas:
http://www.mywedding.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/cuba-anna/bride-castle-wall-sitting-orange-wedding-dress.jpg
http://images.travelpod.com/users/agates515/1.1289204002.sitting-on-castle-wall-500-years-old.jpg
http://image06.webshots.com/6/2/35/85/161323585pnWsIS_fs.jpg


I think you need to try different angles out to find the most effective composition.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 11:53:29 pm
Well... But then I think it's too late to fix this one, isn't it?

Would you suggest something for the top right?

Offline Dwimori

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 03:54:52 am
It's looking good, you don't appear to be having the bit of block I'm having on my current pieces, though I think I just broke it on one of mine. I think the problem people are having with the hair is that as soon as it falls over the edge it becomes paper. It loses all definition. I also think the crennelations could stand to be a bit smaller. I'm not an expert on fortification but the size of those things seem a little over the top. I think them being smaller would also put a little more emphasis on the woman. Looking good though, nice shading on her.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #15 on: March 30, 2011, 04:01:16 am
Thank you, Dwimori!  :)

I'm planing to detail a bit more those crennelations later.. And maybe redo if it will be needed.

Anyway, I change a bit more the hair.

Offline Elk

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #16 on: March 30, 2011, 04:02:46 am
This reminds me of M.C.E
the perspective looks too constructive for me :o
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Offline pistachio

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #17 on: March 30, 2011, 04:09:24 am
Aside from what everyone else said about composition and all that jazz, I note a lack of a foot--at least a right foot--and that her left arm looks a bit flat. I'll make an edit if you don't understand but I'm feeling a bit lazy at the moment.

Also, maybe you took Dwimori's advice too much. Now the hair looks unnaturally fluid somehow...

Whether or not you're going to redo it, you might want to take that into consideration.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #18 on: March 30, 2011, 04:14:44 am
I would apreciate an edit, pistachio, but take your time! ^^
About the hair, I'm still trying to get it right... I just don't know how, yet. :-\

And thanks, Elk! Oh, and btw, what is MCE?

Offline Cure

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #19 on: March 30, 2011, 04:30:33 am
M.C. Escher.
I think your edit of the hair was too extreme, and that's why it looked like blood, if it curled a bit at the ends as Jad suggested it might look alright. I think you should define that edge the hair sits on via a change in the darkness of the hair, rather than having those peachy lines. Compositionally, Mush makes a good point, in that the diagonal lead the eye away from the focal point rather than towards it, so having something in the top right to trap the eye and bring it back into the image is necessary.

Offline Mush

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #20 on: March 30, 2011, 06:08:51 am
Quote
Well... But then I think it's too late to fix this one, isn't it?

Would you suggest something for the top right?

I don't think it's too late :)

Here's an edit I made:





This is how my eyes see the picture:


The figure's perspective may seem a bit off, but I don't think it's too noticeable :/
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 06:11:46 am by Mush »

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #21 on: March 30, 2011, 06:42:41 am
Thank you, much! It really expanded my vision!
But I think this canvas is too big for me, I'll try to keep this project smaller so I can finish.  ;)


I also tryied different combinations from the BG based on Pics in found.

Offline Helm

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Re: Planning first!

Reply #22 on: March 31, 2011, 03:45:47 pm
I think the initial structure is salvagable. You'd need to involve the model more in the geometry to show that she's 'really there' so to speak, and also not treat the textures and details on the rocks and how the hair drapes on the rocks in such a 'two-dimensional' way. Why do you distort the linework of the rocks? You didn't use three point perspective, so I suggest you keep the vertical lines vertical and the horisontal ones horisontal. Don't eyeball perspective often. If you want the rocks to curve as well, you'll need two or three point perspective.



The way you're doing the cracks on the rock is two-dimensional. I can't explain this much better, if you see it, you can't unsee it.  You have to apply perspective to these things as well.

The hair should cohere with gravity more, I think.

I extended the one leg in such a way to show it over the edge of the rock, ti involve the model more with the geometry as I said.

The position of the head is very very painful. Try aiming with your chin at the top of your shoulder too, you'll see.

The lighting on the body and the body's cast shadow on the rocks do not cohere, you'd have to alter one or the other. Seek reference on this. Also, you have a tendency to shade human skin as if it's made of some material that is quite not skin-like. Huge highlights that override the tone of median tone of the skin, as if the person has charcoal whites painted on them. There are lighting conditions in which skin could respond to some light like that, perhaps. But it seems to me you could try toning it down and seeing how you like it.

I didn't edit that black shadow in the hair but it's problematic as far as looking like a deep dark hole in the painting.

There's a lot you can do with this and I urge you to not finish it quickly. Toil at it, struggle with every little thing you have to make a choice about, find reference and reason for your choices. It'll be an uphill struggle but it'll definitely lead somewhere.

Don't let pixel tech confuse you, deal with the fundamentals first. Good luck :)