AuthorTopic: GR#045 - Three Girls (Nudity) - Anatomy, Perspective  (Read 21045 times)

Offline JinnDEvil

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Hello there. This is my first time here, hope you can help me  :)

I'm stuck with the GB, I tried a couple of things, but I just can't make anything worth to continue.
I'm looking for someone who could bring me ideas, or even make a harsh background so I can use to move on.


This is what I got till now:



Thanks guys!


Latest:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 05:05:53 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline Cure

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 03:43:23 am
hmm
that seems sorta like an artist-decision. depends on your goal, I dunno what general setting you envisioned, what your direction is, so I don't really know where these native american girls are supposed to be. I typically imagine the Great Plains when I see that general variety of native american (headdress etc). so you could do large, flat prairies with grazing buffalo. or throw some teepees in behind them. looks kinda like they're at a dry spring right now, the rocks also remind me of midwest pueblo-dwelling indians, so you could possibly take it in that direction (though these do look like plains indians).

a few ideas from google

In the end though, it's a creative decision- so where do you want to take the piece?

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 03:54:41 am
Thank you, Cure.

Some friend told me about a waterfall, and I though it would fit well..
Would you mind to take a look and tell what are you thinking?



And btw, those are supposed to be brazilian indians, so, no prairies, buffalos and no teepees.

It's more like this: http://www.google.com.br/images?um=1&hl=pt-br&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=834&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=brazilian+indian&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=

Offline Mathias

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 04:07:37 am
How odd that you'd fully render the foreground figures, then transplant them into a scene. You'll have to make a conscious effort to avoid a piecemealed look here. Your scene will now have to folow their lighting, perspective, etc.

Reclining figure's foreshortened leg really bugs me; a little rough-looking. Lower calf area too small.
Standing figure's right leg's thigh is flabby, and lower leg is too skinny. Try giving her some calf definition bulging up on our left side, and twist her foot on the rock inward (towards the waterfall). You're trying to achieve flirty postures. It takes very subtle body language.

Your canvas is a little uncomfortable. I'm thinking horizontal would work better, that is if your canvas size isn't locked in by some restrictions or purpose for this.

Brazillian indians? Isn't the bg concept obvious then? A lush rain forest. Lots of vegetation. Put the Brazillian Kardashian sisters in a clearing, surrounded by a beautiful scenic rain forest. End of storeh!

« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:09:21 am by Mathias »

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 04:13:28 am
I respect your smart words, Mathias. But it would be better to me to understand if you show an edit...

I'm not a good english understander (shame on me), I tried to traduce your critics, but it lost a lot of the sense...
But thank you, anyway, I'll try to polish the legs somehow.


Anyway, here's another WIP:



And another:
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 05:29:25 am by JinnDEvil »

Offline Cure

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 06:19:29 am
the area where the standing indian's foot collides with the reclining indian creates tension, I'd consider moving the reclining indian. give the figures a little space to breathe.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 06:32:32 am
Is it better, cure?

Offline Helm

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 09:34:05 am
Every element of this picture is fine as far as pixel art goes.

But it's not researched.

I think you need to do more work *before* you start to draw.

You need to structure a scene. Learn about construction and focus points. Not just draw some people and then draw a background, some rocks, a waterfall.

Waterfalls do not create tap water droplets, the water falls from so high up they create mist.

Rocks near waterfalls are licked smooth by the falling water, they're not these nice - but invented angular rocks that you drew.

On the human level, why are three indian girls flashing the viewer. Neither of the three poses seems at all comfortable, they look like three separated pin-ups, battling for the attention of the viewer. If you wanted to draw girls that are just lounging around in the sun, you should have referenced more relaxed posture.

This art suffers from what a lot of your art as I've seen it suffers from: you draw, but you don't consider the implications of what you're drawing first. Pixel art is a fun medium because you can do something fast and it can look finished, but it doesn't mean everything should be done fast. Especially preliminary studies before a single pixel is placed.

Be honest to yourself: do you start your image by opening a blank canvas, looking at a picture and then placing the first pixel somewhere? You might want to reconsider this approach.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 03:01:01 pm
First things first, Helm.

I'm not a good background maker, it's a fact. I would not make a first sketch because I would not know what to do. I don't really know how these things work for sure.
I'm using this piece to get, somehow, better with BGs. If I'm not, sorry. But I'll keep on anyway.

Maybe in my next I would be able to make a sketch, but now it would not benefit me. honestly.


All I can do is sprites, I'm trying to get better with other things, but I'm taking slow steps. Hope you understand.

Offline Greger

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #9 on: March 22, 2011, 03:53:26 pm
You should start with learning the basics (focal points, sketches etc) BEFORE learning how to draw, it's the smaller parts that make a good picture such as composition and use of focal point.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #10 on: March 22, 2011, 03:54:54 pm
So I guess I should stop then...





« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 03:57:46 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline Jad

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 04:52:02 pm
Haha, nah, keep going, trooper. People aren't trying to get you down, they're recognizing that your art is good, so they only spend their energy on telling you how to make it better.

Once upon a time art like this would make people on this forum run in circles over its goodness and how nice the pixel tech is on the sprites. ' U ' people just got more critique-oriented since then. But it's still good.

Do start studying focal points and the such, though. I think your approach is right. Try backgrounds just to have the attempt in your system, it can't hurt. Doing things the 'wrong' way is a good learning experience and a good place to start from when you start learning the actual techniques. But from here on, if you wanna get better at drawing backgrounds, try to study perspective a bit, try to use it and use and study reference.

If you're prepared to rework most of the background you could always keep going on this. I'm sure people would like to help out.
' _ '

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #12 on: March 22, 2011, 06:44:53 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Jad.
I'll sure take a shot on start structures and focal points in my next projetcs.



Im looking for an idea how to shade the ground now. Do you have any?

Offline Dusty

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #13 on: March 22, 2011, 06:47:38 pm
That's some really weird AA you've got going on with the shadows... in fact, I don't think it works at all.

Anyways I agree with Helm. As far as pixel art goes this is amazingly beautiful, but that doesn't mean it's good art. Helm has mostly covered it all so I won't reinvent the wheel. I will say though that you should finish this, but learn from your mistakes as far as the composition and such goes. Maybe one day you will revisit it and make it truly outstanding on all levels, and hopefully your future pieces will benefit.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 06:50:12 pm by Dusty »

Offline Greger

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 06:48:28 pm
Thanks for the kind words, Jad.
I'll sure take a shot on start structures and focal points in my next projetcs.



Im looking for an idea how to shade the ground now. Do you have any?



Well, the ladies (and the rocks) all reflect the light as if they all came from where the point of view is, whereas the shades on the ground come as if the light came from behind them.

Offline TheChannel

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #15 on: March 22, 2011, 06:49:43 pm
Speaking of shadow,  the standing woman's shadows makes it seem like sunset while the relaxing one's shadow makes me think the suns on a 45 degree angle.

Offline Cure

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #16 on: March 22, 2011, 06:56:29 pm
Will you be changing the water splash? It really reads like stringy-I-don't-know, the mist helm mentioned would be much more believable.
The shadow of the girl lying down is too short, it should be pretty long given how low the sun is and the other shadows.
Tension has been relieved a bit but I still feel the reclining indian could be moved further towards the empty corner.
Turning the standing indian's toes inward (on the extended leg) might make for a more seductive pose, as I think was suggested earlier. (I think Mathias also mentioned the varying sizes of the thighs)
I think the sitting indian could arch her back more, have the top of the back less straight and instead project back a little bit. She has really twiggy arms given those thighs.
Reclining indian's feet are wonky. The leg lying on the ground (lower leg, calf etc), as has been mentioned, is also twiggy.
The perspective do seem a little off. The closer the element is, the more it seems as if it's seen from above (far bg not so much, rocks a little, shadows a lot)
If the figures are casting such prominent shadows, I'd expect the shading on them to match, instead it seems to be coming from almost the opposite angle.

Dusty brings up a good point, and it's a problem I've noticed before in your pieces: the AA is too different a hue, it creates eye-burn and punches through the image. The brown AA in the water is having the same effect.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 06:59:57 pm by Cure »

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #17 on: March 22, 2011, 07:00:20 pm
I can understand all that you say, cure. But I just don't know how to fix it properly.
Would you mind to show me an edit? (I can handle the AA tho)


Edit:

AA and position of the Reclining indian fixed, imo.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 07:13:12 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline metachaos

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #18 on: March 22, 2011, 07:13:02 pm
I don't agree with the mist waterfall stuff.

A piece of art is art, when picasso was drawing his abstract painting, there was a lot of non possible shapes... and who cares ? it's art, stop thinking about art like mathematics !

I find myself the splash stuff kindda exciting and would take it as a metaphore, of girls wet of envy, waterfall being between legs. It's kind of erotic and poetic and if you put mist on it you will go from an artistic and spiritual work, to a realworld making attempt which will fail whatever you try as realworld isn't made of pixels..

Peeps on this forum really need to go see some of Amano's work and see how disrespect of proportions can lead to beautiful things.

Stop being so stubborn and let creativity be !
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Offline TheChannel

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #19 on: March 22, 2011, 07:17:05 pm
^^  I second that,  (With the exception of my shadow complaint)

Offline Cure

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #20 on: March 22, 2011, 07:17:45 pm
Picasso was a cubist. There's a reason he used those shapes.
Different art has different goals. Abstract water in an otherwise realistic scene just reads as bad water, not as intentional abstraction with a specific goal.
If those women looked like Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, I might be more inclined to agree.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 07:23:27 pm by Cure »

Offline metachaos

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #21 on: March 22, 2011, 07:22:09 pm
Picasso did a lot of different things based on what pleased him, so do JinnDevil...  Art is but the thing you can feel with your senses and no one has the right to tell you to do something because you're not cubist or whatever...

EDIT : the worst artist are those who waste time talking about art instead of making art IMV
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 07:23:52 pm by metachaos »
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Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #22 on: March 22, 2011, 07:48:04 pm
Anyways, art discution beside, I kinda like the whater splash the way it is, but I would change if someone show how it can be better (an edit would help, seriously).


Well, here's the most recently wip. I'm still stuck with how to shade the ground.


Update:
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 11:04:05 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline Mush

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #23 on: March 23, 2011, 04:31:47 am
Hey Jinn,

One way I've learned to employ 'good' composition is by drawing thumbnails of the scene before any work is done to the main picture. Each thumbnail should vary in perspective, light source, values, etc so that when you have completed 20 or so, you can choose the one that is most fitting. Once you select the best one, draw it out on paper and see if it holds its integrity.

Conceptart.org is a great place to learn about what makes a successful drawing.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/index.php
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 04:36:05 am by Mush »

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #24 on: March 23, 2011, 05:25:19 am
Thank you very much, Mush. I'll sure take a look on this site.  ;)

And thanks for the tip too, It seems a clever idea.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 05:42:13 am by JinnDEvil »

Offline Martyr

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #25 on: March 23, 2011, 11:12:02 am
Water should reflect the legs a bit.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #26 on: March 23, 2011, 01:51:07 pm
Water should reflect the legs a bit.

enough?





Could someone help me to shade the ground?  :D

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #27 on: March 23, 2011, 02:39:41 pm
Since you've detailed the girls entirely as if they were on a perfectly flat and horizontal ground, it's probably too late to add uneven ground or grass.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #28 on: March 23, 2011, 02:42:42 pm
I starded a grass, but I don't know if it is the best way to do it.



Update:

« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:24:26 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline pistachio

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 04:47:29 pm
Honestly I feel the background is sort of... off. Not necessarily clashing, just off. I think the cause of this is that each of the women seem to have their own different perspective. The middle one is viewed as if seen from head-on, while the one on the right seems to lie on a plane that faces us a good deal more. The left-most woman's perspective seems to be somewhere between the two. And judging by the progress you've made since you started this piece, fixing this is probably going to be tough.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #30 on: March 23, 2011, 04:59:03 pm
So I think there's no way to fix it now... Just starting over.


I'd call it done then.








I learned the lesson, anyway, i'll give more effort next time. ;)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 05:19:33 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline big brother

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #31 on: March 23, 2011, 08:23:31 pm
It looks more like an issue of planning and approach rather than lack of effort.

Offline JinnDEvil

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #32 on: March 23, 2011, 08:26:25 pm
Well, effort on planning.  :lol:


Also, I played a bit with the pallete, and I kinda liked those variations:
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 08:47:52 pm by JinnDEvil »

Offline metachaos

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #33 on: March 24, 2011, 01:07:20 am
Love the contrast on the third one :)
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Offline Joseph

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Re: Stuck with BG (18+ nudity)

Reply #34 on: April 01, 2011, 08:47:07 am
I love the piece except the reclining girl's leg...I've been out of pixeling for quite some time now but I took a shot at an edit.

lol, fixed the image with some censorship, hopefully photobucket allows this one.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 02:24:51 am by Joseph »