[WIP] Hipster Catgirl (partial nudity)

[Helm]

Also worth considering is the psychosexual charge of the lighting you've chosen. In your pieces, the highlights are very large. This connotes (to me at least) that the person in the picture is either very oiled or that flash photography is used. Or possibly both. This is useful in making me think of professional porn, where they strive to light everything as much as possible and often lubricants give off these large, harsh speculars. This makes this image even more creepy in support of the trend we are discussing. The viewer sees this and he goes into fap mode mindset without being exactly sure why. Even that you hide the apex of the breast is more tantalizing than not.

If you want to buck the trend, you'd give her subdued speculars and more shadows, like a real person, in a real room. Then the viewer will think of intimacy even if they don't want to, and they'll be reminded this is not a real catgirl in their room purring on the side of their necks. This is a drawing of something distant, yet more real than the unreality of the entertainment they consume.


If you're trying to buck a trend by appearing to support it, I'm sorry to say to you that irony is usually misconstrued. The Colbert Report is funny and ironic, yet its also just plain ol' funny to a resolutely conservative audience that watches him sans irony. They think he's just doing some friendly ribbing while ultimately being on 'their side'.

This is art that might be trying to be 'friendly ribbing', but ends up on the other side.

As a final word consider this: After all this discussion and all the edits, I am still unclear, from the image, if you're in support of an objectifying cliche of female sexuality or not. Is this what you want to achieve?

[tehwexxl0rz]

[Deleted]

Your critique really hurt my feelings at the time, but you were obviously trying to help and I was just insecure about the subject matter. Live and learn. Sorry, Helm. <3

[Jad]

Thanks guys.

Jad, I don't understand your criticism of my "subtle shading" of the mouth. It seems like you're suggesting if I am to render an unrealistic mouth shape, I should make a bold dark line to signal "this not a real mouth; it's stylized!" But the entire image is extremely stylized! I don't see how rendering the mouth with less cohesive shading would strengthen the piece.

The eyes are heavily magnified by the glasses. Here's an image from google image search that illustrates the effect I'm going for: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/96077601_c999314868.jpg

I get the sense that you and Helm do not watch much if any anime. Am I wrong? The mouth is an allusion to a visual trope that's fairly specific to that medium. I wouldn't expect someone who's unfamiliar with it to understand it intuitively...

If that smile is meant to connote demureness, there are better ways to go about it.

It is not. And I am not falling back on this mouth shape because it's easy. The cliché is the message. Some may consider that meta, postmodern bullshit, but just the fact that I'm getting polarized reactions of "D'aww!" and "wtf vagina/butt-mouth" makes me feel like I've accomplished exactly what I set out to do artistically.

Nah, you got me just right. I think a bold line would work better. But it's my personal idea of how I wanna stylize things, so it's just feedback, not trying to point out 'objective' faults in the picture.

Also I watch nothing but anime, and I sadly almost draw nothing but anime too, so you didn't get it completely right there ' U ' I'm a big fan of the :3-mouth even, but when you reach a certain point of ... construction .. in the face, I think it stops working. Again, it's my personal idea of how I want things to be. ' 3 '

... I'll read through Helm's posts now and try to see why you're so agitated. ' 0 ' please don't be. In the end we're all just guys with opinions on the internet.

... But I'll read through it all before I comment further on it.

EDIT: I meant the whole style of the piece would have to be changed for a 3-mouth to look nice. ' 3 ' not that you'd slap in a big black 3-mouth in a piece that's rendered in a different way. That would look bad, indeed

EDIT2: well, when it comes to critique, Helm's administrator status doesn't really mean anything, you know. He's allowed to call your art worthless if he wants to.

It's not correct that he labeled you a sexist. He's questioned whether you are supporting or going against the sexualization and pet-ification of 'the woman' that a cat girl signifies. Not saying that you have done either.

Any mental associations to pornography are happening inside of Helm's head, and in this case he is the pervert. So don't read those kind of sentences as an attack towards you, he's just describing his experience watching and thinking about your image. In the end he's out to encourage you, but encourage you to do the stuff he wants to see. You don't have to agree. Especially not cause he's an administrator or anything. That doesn't count when it comes to feedback. It's the quality of the feedback itself, and that only, that counts. Not the administrational power of the poster.

' ___ ' am sorry to see you being so upset over this, but I can understand it too. Harsh two-post wall of text tends to do that. I both agree and disagree with helm on certain points, so I dunno.

I, personally just see art as self-fulfillment and masturbation, and would gladly draw naked cat girls if I wanted to, only for masturbational purposes, so I don't have any problem with what you're doing, although I like to draw women more empowered and less as sexualized pets.

But when I'm in that mood I like to draw such things too. So what the hell.

Edit3: short thing about stylization: when you render a 3-mouth with shading and such, it looks like a buttagina to me. When you render it boldly without shading, it reads instantly like a cat-mouth to me, and I can't even see the buttagina. So I'm very polarized about that sorta thing. But I think it's a good rule of thumb ' 3 '

[tehwexxl0rz]

EDIT: I meant the whole style of the piece would have to be changed for a 3-mouth to look nice. ' 3 ' not that you'd slap in a big black 3-mouth in a piece that's rendered in a different way. That would look bad, indeed

Ah! That makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

EDIT1: Thanks, Jad, for your thoughtful response. That really cheered me up. I'm satisfied with how the piece turned out for the PJ challenge, but moreover I was really proud of myself for just finishing in time. Not too long ago, a piece this size would have taken me weeks. I know that sounds ridiculous, but my perfectionism is pretty debilitating.... >_> I cranked this out in just a few hours over three days, so that was a bit of an ego boost. To hear an artist I respect call it worthless was a bit of a buzzkill.

I like to draw women more empowered than sexualized too! In fact I'm working on a 3D character model for the female protagonist of an action adventure game I'm developing. I only really started this piece as a fun distraction from staring at edges and vertices all day. The pixel pieces I've posted on Pixelation are only a small fraction of my body of work. If I've posted several WIPs of shiny-looking girls, it's because I want to learn female anatomy for character design. Playing with strong highlights helps me better understand volume. The video games industry is oversaturated with generic, ripped, stubbly men, and I want to make games that buck that trend.

Also, I've been adding rim lighting to my pixel arts because I think it looks cool, not cause I dig oily people.... >_>

EDIT2: Strangely, now that I think about it, I only really draw revealing poses in pixels. o_O I think since I'm paying such meticulous attention to detail, I feel like I should turn every pixel girl into anatomy-learning-crunch-fest.

[Helm]

I, personally just see art as self-fulfillment and masturbation, and would gladly draw naked cat girls if I wanted to, only for masturbational purposes, so I don't have any problem with what you're doing, although I like to draw women more empowered and less as sexualized pets.

I see no problem with art as masturbation either. I masturbate often, like most human beings. It's just a case of whether someone is trying to do that, or another thing, with his art. Since meta-concepts were brought up and are pertinent to this piece, I said I was confused as to what the piece is achieving. This is useful to the artist.

I didn't call your art worthless. I said that in the case of certain conditions that might or might not be met, I believe there is art that is not worth drawing. I know the distinction is thin and I can understand how my posts upset you. I am sorry about this.

But I didn't intend to attack you, nor do I think the gist of my posts is inflamatory. It's critique, personal observations, which you can take or leave. But please think of the other side of the coin: I spent a significant amount of time talking and editing your art. Would I be doing this to attack you? If not, what other possible reason would I have to do it than furthering your artistic desires and betterment?

[EvilEye]

I see no problem with art as masturbation either. I masturbate often, like most human beings.

 

A sig-worthy quote if I ever saw one. How often is often me wonders.....

I liked the last version because of the pixel work on the hair. I think Helms edit of the mouth was respectable. The biggest flaw that stands out at me is the breasts are too high and too saggy.

[Ryumaru]

Honestly I like this better than I expected I would, but I still think the other version has more of an artistic impact:

This version is nice. I get the catmouth thing but the image has honestly been rendered to representationally for it to fit. Helm was definitely not out to attack you or your art, he just wants the community to improve and boldly gives his thoughts if its for the furtherment of the piece in question. Perhaps more clearly identify the intent of your piece beforehand, even write it down so you always know your first ideas, even if you change them. On a pixel level this is really nice and I've seen marked improvement in your work as you've been posting :]

[Helm]

I can read my posts in the voice of a big jerk too, I honestly realize how the "you know what? fuck this" effect happens some times with how I critique. But think of the bad karma, if I've been involved in this critique community for I-don't-know-how-many-years with the intent of putting people down, surely I'd have been hit by a bus or something by now, or perhaps prostate cancer (masturbating often helps avoid the latter). Try to read my posts and think of an adorable black kitten typing them in to get where I'm coming from!