Website layout. - now with 50% less racism!

[setz]

http://panicus.org/~setz/website/

Not much else to say. The main/art/info links are most likely temporary until I make something more fitting to the mood. For the most part it's finished, I don't think I'll do much more improvements on it. Not much content to it yet, but I'd like to see what people think of the layout. Any comments would be nice even if I don't use them in this piece, It'll still be nice to know what people think and how to improve my skills in general.

[Big nothing]

Amazing layout, it's very amazing 

[Ryumaru]

nice site setz 

[God Slayer]

The repeating background is a little too blatent, you should tone it down since it makes the site seem more cluttered, which is bad.  Tone it down, either take it out of desaturate it. Also, the characters under your lettering aren't evenly spaced, and the white outline clashes too much. You want the characters to stand out, not be an eyesore.

Its easy to tell where where the 'grid' is, you should take some time and go through and unify everything a bit more and give it more depth.Its a good start.

ps, Whats with the lame replies? Lets better the community guys, and do less asspatting meaninglessness and more critique, eh?

[The B.O.B.]

It looks ok at the moment. I'm not diggin' the plain lookin' dirt, though. It's too light, and needs a little more color in my opinion. The background also needs a little work, as it's feeling a little repetitive, kinda like those old windows backgrounds for your desktops that got ya dizzy when you stared at them for too long. By the way, I would crit more, but I noticed an African American bieng hanged on the far left side of the screen. All I have to say it wow. For future reference, I don't think your site will gain much popularitly with it there. But if it's your thing, or you didn't mean it that way, than thats cool I guess. I'll just keep my thoughts to myself on that one. Hope nobody see's it in the wrong way as I did, or even takes offense to it. Good luck

[setz]

B.O.B.: The way I look at it an african american being hung is no different than any other race being hung, to be honest the only reason it's not a white person is because I felt that skintone went better with the surroundings, I apologize if you take offense to it, because that wasn't the meaning.

Also, the characters under your lettering aren't evenly spaced, and the white outline clashes too much. You want the characters to stand out, not be an eyesore.

The main/art/info links are most likely temporary until I make something more fitting to the mood.

As for the background, I'll see what I can do, it was pertty much just something quick I slopped together.

[David]

It is in poor taste to have a black person hanging from a tree considering in recent history such things have occurred. It's really in poor taste to have a guy hanging from a tree anyway.

Oh, and the image coupled with the title of the site and the fact that everyone else is white just comes off wrong.

[Darion]

 

Looks like me.

[lief]

you may find a better way to approach the issue whilst keeping the atmosphere, and maybe even improving upon it would be to have a skeleton hanging in tattered clothes as if it had been hanging there for years.
the only thing that gives things meaning is the past eg  the swastika is merely a shape, but it raises a lot of different emotions in a lot of different people.  something to keep in mind.

[Billeh]

Yes definitly bad taste to have a black man hanging from the gallows. Maybe have a fictional character hanging there. Or a famous (but no controversial) figure. Something to get rid of that. It will raise alot of emotions and discourage employers.

[setz]

David: I didn't think to well into the title relating with the hung man . I just grabbed a quote from SotN that stuck out in my head. Title is changed, though.

I personally don't see it as racist in the least. I was hoping to get more comments about the art than comments along the liens of "zomg racism." As that was not my goal.

A few views from people in IRC that for the most part, I agree with.
[20:49] <Drag> The racist people are the people who are saying hanging a black guy is racist.
[21:12] <bbitmaster> lol setz, you could make all the whiners happy by putting a white guy hanging beside him

The way I feel it's not an issue unless you make it an issue, suprisingly this is the only community that's even said somethign about it, and this was actually the last place I expected it to happen. I'll apologize if anyone is offended, I myself don't live in the 1960's and have a sense of humor [note: not saying the image is supposed to be comedic at all]. Please, no drama ;p

[Darien]

When making art, everything must be considered, especially when it strays from your norm.  From your other sprites, it seems you're used to pixeling white people, and so when you decided to pixel that hanged guy, for some reason you chose to make him black.  Ask yourself, why did you make that choice?  We don't know, so we can only guess at that choice by applying social context.  And in the past blacks have been discriminated against.  So we can only assume that you're trying to make a point about having a hanging black guy nearby.  And when you have three white guys nearby, one of them who is giving a THUMBS UP of all things, how can you not expect it to seem racist?

I personally don't see it as racist in the least. I was hoping to get more comments about the art than comments along the liens of "zomg racism." As that was not my goal.

Don't be rediculous.  This is about the art, and the most artistic part of art rather than the techincal crap.  You should learn to be careful and think about your subject choices and what they mean.

[Billeh]

Even if y our intentions were, as you say, not racist it certainly would come across as so. Its generally safer not to hang people as your subject matter. Just food for thought.

[Darion]

[note: not saying the image is supposed to be comedic at all]

Then what WAS your intention? I don't care if you are hanging an anime-black guy or a black comedian; if you show a black person being lynched - regardless of their profession or existence - its going to seem intentionally rascist.

And.

<Drag> The racist people are the people who are saying hanging a black guy is racist.

Thats probably the dumbest shit i've ever heard.

Jesus christ, this is why I hate being American.

EDIT: Just to make this post uesful, I would consider the texture of various terrain. Your randomized spraying of dots over the grass doesn't do much.

[The B.O.B.]

   Once again, I've caused another heated debate. Ok look, I'm sorry for focusing merely on one pic, than the whole piece as a whole. However, let me point out that I am by no means backing down from my claim. The point of this forum is to better any piece submitted by using helpful crits to better the look of that certain piece. From my stand point, I feel that the website would look much cooler without an african american hanging from a post. It may be possible that you could also try and claim that you did not see any color in your choice by choosing to hang an African American. But if so, than why African American? Why not any other race, who hasn't been victim to such horrible deaths? And if you use the depiction for artsy purposes, than I must say, it still doesn't work. 
   You could try and back your reason for not changing by calling me racist. Fine, I don't mind. However, when the majority of people in this forum begin to agree in unision of the same problem, than maybe it isn't your original backing claim, and maybe it could indeed use a touch up. Cause after all, is that not the point of a website's design? To look pleasing to the eye, to invite the viewer? And it's not like you have to get rid of it entirely. I would seriously take Lief's advice and just change it into a rag doll, or worn skeleton. I believe it would look much better, and would better suit the web sites cartoony design.
   Aside from that, I would like to see more icons, and designs added to the site. It's lookin' bare bones at the moment, and I'm curious to see where this sucker heads. The background tiles do need to be cleaned up a smidge. Maybe, where ever there is a text box on the web page, there could be a cave imprint that would fit it inside the hill/plataeu. Also, some large dark trees in some quite random spots should help spice it up if you ask me.
   This bieng said, I have spoken my peace. And remember, if any thing, you didn't offend me. I'm just afraid you may cause a stir in the community, forever staining your credibility as a mature artist. You choose your own path, and if you stick with it, than so be it. You are most definitely entitled to your opinion, whether it be serious or comedical, as it is your natural birth right. But as far as my eyes are concerned, the hanging of an African American can be done much more respectfully in an artistic manner. This, definitely does not show any maturity in that subject area. Cause quite frankly, depicting an African American hanging from a post is not only immature, it is most definitely NOT FUNNY....even from the zombie point of view...

Thank you for listening, The B.O.B.

[Darien]

Oh yeah, sorry for not commenting on the layout.  Let me first say that I made my argument not to attack you for having the hanging black man, as I do not think you meant it to be racist (I just think it was careless) and I think you need to realize that people will interpret art in social context and just because this isn't the 60's doesn't mean those issues aren't still around.  The 60's aren't that far gone.  Racism still exists.  You have to acknowledge these facts and realize that this issues will be taken in account when confronted with a controversial image such as a hanged black man.  Also remember that your website is meant to represent you and your interests.  I hope hanging black men is not one of your interests.  I think it is in your best interest to remove the hanged man.

As for the layout, it doesn't really do anything for me.  The colors are nice though, and easy to look at.  The cliff/ground thing is really bland and I don't know if you should use a theme like that if you aren't going to do anything with it.  Maybe have some more interesting things coming of the cliff wall like plants and things so it's not just the same repeated pattern.  Also have the icon fit the theme rather than just random people.

[Helm]

oh wow! I didn't notice the hanged black guy until it was mentioned here! I'm not one for political correctness but somehow that part of the layout just cannot be interpreted as irrelevant to my mind now that I see it. I don't know what you should do, but if you plan to get work with this website, you might consider taking that bit off. It isn't any much more pleasing if it's a white guy either. It's just that... there's three guys on a long vertical empty strip, and A HANGED GUY. If there were more elements then the eye could adjust between them, but now it seems like a point is being made. In the same way that I am not actually offended by say, exploding guts art if they were to be on your website, but it would be a bad career move to have them on there

[setz]

As for the comments on the icons. . . . I quote myself again.

The main/art/info links are most likely temporary until I make something more fitting to the mood.

I was actually thinking about wooden signposts with the words printed on them, personally.

as for the hangman, after reading some more and thinking about it, I suppose it would be best to change it, I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone, A ragdoll/skeleton/alien/speciesandorobjectthatwontoffendpeople is in order.

I suppose I could break the grid/repeating tiles, that was actually just a lazy move by me, looking at it again, I feel the inside cliff walls could use more detail as well, similar to how they are on the bottom.

The B.O.B.: I like your idea about the tree, actually.

[Esker]

Personally I don't see the point in having a man hanging there it really doesn't add anything to your site in my opinion.

Some extra eyecandy on the site will improve it but I can't say I'm a fan of the hanging man. Unless you're into all that weird shit.

[GOODNIGHTdestroyer]

I say bring back the hanging black person. It was cool.

[lief]

It isn't any much more pleasing if it's a white guy either. It's just that... there's three guys on a long vertical empty strip, and A HANGED GUY.

i agree (and i think helm is very funny) , it just sets a strange mood.  this actually got me thinking about the issue... a twitching hanged person in a kids cartoon would likely cause uproar, but a skeleton would be slightly morbid, but less likely to cause a higher age rating.  is this becuase of the immediacy of the act?

[Ryumaru]

a pixel portrait of that picture you have on your myspace would own. you could put it in the top right and have a logo to it.

[ndchristie]

lol....myspace....

I wouldnt really be against the idea fo a hanging person if it added to the layout in some significant way, but it (or really anything else on your page) doesnt really fit that bill.  i suggest looking at other sites with a pixel layout like st0ven's old page and try to do something bigger and more interesting.  perhaps when you have content in the window will look better.  everything you have done is nice, but for a website layout, the tiny characters and the tiles especially make it look plain.  large things take more work, but frankly look better. 

Nate out

[setz]

a pixel portrait of that picture you have on your myspace would own. you could put it in the top right and have a logo to it.

Actually I did start on something similar to that once upon a time.

I thought it was shit and quit working on it :p

Esker: I have a strange fixation with stringing people up to posts/trees. I haven't done it much in pixels, but there are many a person hung in my sketchbooks :p

The problem with a logo, is I don't have a good name :O

[Xion]

I say bring back the hanging black person. It was cool.

WTF?

Umm, I think I came in too late to see the hanging black dude, but yeah, you wouldn't have been able to explain why you had a hanging black dude on your site to everyone, and it's pretty much in human nature to draw conclusion from their own experience or past events. People would be offended, invevitably, instantly drawing the conclusion from historical events. I, for one, would be offended if I was browsing a site and came across a black dude hanging for no apparent reason. In fact, why do you want a hanging dude there anyway? Honestly, there are much better (and more appealing) ways of displaying your artistic skills. One important aspect of being an artist, I believe, is the ability to create things that have meaning or are original creations. If nothing more, have a tasteful display of skill.

As for the actual art, I actually like the grass and gallows, but I think that the layout would benefeit from losing the tiled feeling in the dirt. Also, a common theme would be nice, instead of a stylistically uncohesive hodgepodge of characters that seem to be oblivious to one another. Perhaps some interaction between them would be nice?

I just saw this:

Esker: I have a strange fixation with stringing people up to posts/trees. I haven't done it much in pixels, but there are many a person hung in my sketchbooks :p

If you really want to continue with the hangman theme, maybe have a suitable environment, like an eerie marsh with (more) bodies floating around and a crocodile hungrily licking his chops...? Or a bloody asylum with a straight-jacketed psycho in the corner and people asfixiated to various pipes, poles, and maybe hanging from a live wire or something. Seriously, if you wanna hang someone ya gotta be creative.

Oh yeah, yay, Pittsburgh, PA. [Hometown]

[setz]

Okay, added some more dead things. I've got tweaking to do in to them, such as adding a shadow and maybe tossing the ambient lighting on the other two. Also, I second the yay pittsburgh. New background as well, should be somewhat easier on the eyes.

[CrumbBread]

You could make a hanging-man(and hanging-woman!) sprite for every skin-tone group on Earth, so nobody will think that your penchant for grim and violent imagery is unfairly focused.

On an Actually Useful Note, the purple guy doesn't fit with the other three so well (I think it is because he is bigger and has brighter softer-looking light/colors). =) Considered individually I like them very much but together they don't seem cohesive.

[Alex]

I say bring back the hanging black person. It was cool.

i should fucking bitch slap you. sorry about my profanity but that was so not necessary...

edit: i also find it very humorous that i get in trouble for language and behavior, while a racist thread such as this can just be untouched.

[ptoing]

If anyone makes a racist comment about hanging black guys being cool or anything like that from now on i will ip ban their asses. Consider this a warning GND.

[Turbo]

GoodNightdestroyer's comment was obviously irony about the excessive drama over misinterpreted racism.

The only person that may have been guilty of (wrongfully accused) racism has appologised and changed the offending piece. Maybe if you did the same, Alex, you wouldn't feel so persecuted. Maturity and all.

[Darien]

GoodNightdestroyer's comment was obviously irony about the excessive drama over misinterpreted racism.

No it wasn't.  It served no purpose other than to purport more drama.  And I don't know how you can call Alex immature and defend that comment in the same post.

and wtf you're not Indigo. 

As for the website, it's still very barren and uninteresting.  If you're going with the dead them a sort of graveyard backdrop with maybe a mausoleum would be interesting...

[Alex]

GoodNightdestroyer's comment was obviously irony about the excessive drama over misinterpreted racism.

The only person that may have been guilty of (wrongfully accused) racism has appologised and changed the offending piece. Maybe if you did the same, Alex, you wouldn't feel so persecuted. Maturity and all.

Josh may have been ironic with his post (with his perception of racism and all) but even so it was out of the line. Besides, i handled myself very well, despite the language.

[Darion]

YEA NIGGA.

BLACK POWER.

[ndchristie]

personally i think if we cant talk about the website itself, this should be locked

i still think that the site would benefit from larger images that really benefit the layout, whereas these small characters and tiles simply serve imo to make it look repetitive and empty

[Razz]

I think the hanged dude should be a robot. That would be sweet.
Some other things need to be added though, like spouts of grass, some weeds, rocks, etc. Just some stuff to break the monotony.

But sometimes I wonder if people are actually offended, or just act that way because it's politically correct and it's how people "should react."

You could make a hanging-man(and hanging-woman!) sprite for every skin-tone group on Earth, so nobody will think that your penchant for grim and violent imagery is unfairly focused.

Haha, they'll just think he's a nihilist or something.

[Xion]

Wow...

I think the hanged dude should be a robot. That would be sweet.

lol.
Yeah, have a kind of racism towards the mechanical men theme. Like Animatrix.

I agree that the purple dude looks out of place. You should just make a single character, and base all the other characters in your layout in that style, with similar pallette choices and proportions, but different poses and clothes. As I said before, I like the grass, but the layout would definately benefeit from more. A hellhound, pile of corpses, and some silhouettes of more hanging people in the distance would add much to this. Again, as I said before, the tiled look should be lost. Go for an approach as if this were a single piece of art, not a game. Games use tiles - small segments of art. Works of art are unique in every section, unless a recurring theme is sought.
Some small, shriveled plants, maybe?
If you're going to make the background more detailed, remember to add outlines to the sprites that you wish to be links.