AuthorTopic: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).  (Read 6046 times)

Offline Ixis

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It's an iso Tactics Ogre/FFT:A style strategy RPG.

I've been looking around for some tutorials on how iso tiling goes (I know about type B, 2:1, etc), but I need help figuring out how to tell my programmer how to setup the program to put these tiles together. Also I was looking at Pixel-Zone's tutorials but I read here that following that might not be a good idea. :'(

So would my actual tiles (the ones the program uses to put together a map) be rectangular or is there a simple way to do it in squares? Should the tiles be actual 32x32 blocks that are put together like a lego set? Or should I make a big final iso image like the one below, but broken into layers based on buildings/walls/etc?



I know how to put down pixels but having a program parse those into something that works is hopelessly confusing to me. I feel like there's a trick here, but I might be wrong.

Offline ptoing

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 08:18:49 am
Look at games like Tactics Ogre or FFTA on an emulator and turn of the tile layers one by one. Those games usually use 8x8 pixel tiles and have 2 or so layers for the playing field. One layer will be only tiles which are fully filled and the other layer on top is for diagonals which and stuff that is partially transparent, such as the edges of raised bits, the sides of the playfield and stuff like the roofs of houses.

Just look more at those kinda games and analyse what they do :)
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Stratto

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 05:04:32 pm
Take into consideration that these type of games usually work with a height counter to avoid confusion.
So, for example, if your player moves up to a slightly taller tile, the height counter (1h), will change (to 2h).

Offline Ixis

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 06:15:02 pm
Thanks guys! Spent most of yesterday figuring this out and I'm posting what I found in the hopes of helping anyone else wondering about these things. I did take a peek into Tactics Ogre: LUCT (the SNES version, not the new fancy PSP one), here's what I found. :D


Here's normal Tactics Ogre with all the tiles setup perfectly.


Here's Tactics Ogre without the tiles on layer 2. The ground tiles are layer 1, and from what I could see layers 3 and 4 aren't used (except for maybe UI and such, but I can't say for sure as I kept having strange issues where character sprites would appear above the UI, or parts of the UI would disappear. These aren't issues in the game but problems specifically in the way certain emulators handle the rom). These tiles can animate as well. Height (or "Step" in the world of TO:LUCT) are values unique to each tile. Determining units moving across the field is handled simply by a simple equation "beginning step - end step", where if the value is positive the unit can move across and fall about 16 pixels, and if it's negative by 1 the unit will bump up 16 pixels. At -2 and lower the unit will jump based on that particular units jump value (most units cannot jump higher than 2 steps.) ::)


Here's the same image but with the bottom layer taken out. We can see the transparent tiles here. They're actually 16x16 and not 32x32.


Lastly here's all the tiles turned on with a grid added manually by me. So, what we see is that even though the map visually looks to be isometric, it's still a grid, but cleverly disguised as something isometric at the base. The trouble of course is figuring out the math for unit placement and having a good enough engine to help you parse the tiles (it'd be hard to imagine where every tile goes if you're making 2 hash maps, one for layer 1 and one for layer 2.) There's an alternate, cheaper (non-oldschool way) that I think we'll try, however if you want to go hardcore oldschool with it, you might want to have 2 sets of every 16x16 tile you create: one with the hash value of the tile drawn above it and one without. This way you could visually create the map you want to create in whatever program you wish, and then easily follow the numbers to figure out the hash table. ;D

As for doing height you'll probably want a 3rd table for indicating that (and maybe a 4th to determine where the unit is on the X,Y axis.) From there it's simple math to figuring out when, where and how units move and/or jump as well as what tiles are over or under the unit.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:21:25 pm by Ixis »

Offline ptoing

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 08:09:44 pm
Nice research. Also the tiles on that are still 8x8 (seeing as that is what the SNES uses) but they have 16x16 meta tiles.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Glak

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 11:40:00 pm
Your programmer should be the one to figure this out.

- a programmer

Offline Ixis

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Re: I'm gonna' make an ISO game!! (brain hurts, need some help).

Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011, 01:32:33 am
He did, but I wanted to know how to go about drawing the sprites, and I wound up learning a bit of the coding side of things too.

And as one of those pixel artists that approves of using limited palettes and following the artistic challenges of creating games on old hardware it was important to me. One of those things most people won't notice or care about, but which would hopefully impress people who know about pixel art. ::)